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    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Given a serious approach and my favorite

    Bismark quote I'll acknowledge having followed and read Boyd plus Lind, Record and many other current theorists many years ago. I also read most of those you named above even more years ago and have read Hammes and a few others lately -- not including Robb -- and I've learned something from every one of them. Still check 'em out today from time to time. I have no pride, I'll steal a good idea in a second. Keeping people alive and minimally hassled while getting jobs done is what it's all about and anything that aids in that is fair game for theft...

    I have also seen ideas from each of them that I have discarded; some due to many factors being not currently applicable, others being in the "only if you're really lucky" category. Such selective retention or discard is, of course, based on my experience. Some of that is relevant today, some may not be though I take pains to try and stay abreast (not least because I have a erving son whose favorite pastime seems to be taxing the old man's brain. Sigh).

    The issue there is what one adopts from the theorists is likely to depend on ones predilections, instincts (which should be trusted) and experience. Nothing wrong with that.

    In 45 years of training or helping people train to go to war, I discovered three basic truths. First, we're all different and what works for me may not work for you and vice versa, thus I've long been a proponent of teaching people how to think and not what to think (using that phrase decades before it became popular) and encouraging irreverence, imagination, innovation and initiative (my four "I"s, the irreverence is aimed at "fonts of all knowledge" and 'one way' or school solution proponents).

    Secondly, learn the doctrine thoroughly and study prodigously but always remember what Bull Halsey said -- "Regulations were meant to be intelligently disregarded" and that applies to doctrine and theory as well (and that is my only mantra ). Lastly, I trained or helped others train for most of 45 years to fight a land war in Europe -- never even got stationed much less fought there-- but I sure have eaten a whole lot of rice. The point there being we do not know where, when or who we will fight -- why is immaterial, how will change...

    Then there are three tactical absolutes I learned the hard way. (1) Do not try to adopt the thinking of others, they or their chroniclers will leave something out when they tell you why they did what they did. (2) Do not ever, ever, ever do the same thing twice. Never. Under any circumstances. Never ever. (3) Stay alert to stay alive, stay agile to stay ahead.

    Since Wilf Owen posted the thread originally, he may come back and give you more than a one liner. He's a busy guy and many of his posts are, uh, somewhat cryptic. I OTOH, can babble for hours

    Long way of saying there are aspects of MW that I agree with, there are aspects I take with a grain of salt -- and with knowledge that the US Armed Forces are now (in not all but too many cases) risk averse and (same caveat) excessively over centralized. Too much so to effectively implement the precepts, plus the ISR improvements we actually now possess have made some elements of MW unnecessary and firepower has a place. We can be lot more surgical than MW envisioned...

    Boyd's theories are broadly applicable but ability to get inside the OODA loop of the bad guys in tactical, operational or strategic environments is constrained by who the decision maker for a specific action decision happens to be; intuitive guys will do it, the more mechanical will likely be unable to do so and continued attempts by those who aren't quick enough will probably lead to failure. Combat Commanders have to do what works for them, not what worked for John Boyd.

    As for the generations of warfare; total academic exercise IMO and I put little stock in any of that. We fight the fight we're sent to. Jayhawker above is spot on with the culture bit and any one from any culture who goes to war (in any sense) is going to seek an 'asymmetric' approach and use the best weapons (in the very broad sense of that word and to include in IO) they can obtain while fighting basically as their culture has provided examples. Both Afghanistan and the ME have proven this in spades. Terror is terror, quick strikes are quick strikes, an assassin is an assassin -- dagger to suicide bombs not withstanding...

    Our problem is that we're so bureaucratic that we cannot get inside their OODA loop. We may change and be able to go asymmetric as well, I do believe we're trying in spite of some Mastodons...
    Last edited by Ken White; 01-06-2008 at 11:34 PM. Reason: Typo

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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post

    Since Wilf Owen posted the thread originally, he may come back and give you more than a one liner. He's a busy guy and many of his posts are, uh, somewhat cryptic. I OTOH, can babble for hours
    As a great military thinker once said, "A hamster can never defeat a bear, but many hamsters will make a good meal."

    Cryptic enough?
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  3. #3
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Nah, that's not cryptic, that's a full explanation...

    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    As a great military thinker once said, "A hamster can never defeat a bear, but many hamsters will make a good meal."

    Cryptic enough?
    Aside from the fact that too many Hamsters are guaranteed to produce a major case of indigestion...

    Of, course there is the issue that the same great military thinker also posed a question about the Bear who may or may not have had that particular problem...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    Aside from the fact that too many Hamsters are guaranteed to produce a major case of indigestion...
    Not to mention hairballs.

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    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norfolk View Post
    Not to mention hairballs.
    depends on whether you did them in NAIR before frying

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    Jayhawker said:

    Here is my take on the worst of 4GW: It reinforces the commonly held belief that history is uniform and linear.
    Yes, the generations framework they use does indeed do this. As a simplification, the generations of warfare does make clear that the character of warfare does change, and has changed (I use it teaching my MA students for this reason), but it does grossly obscure the chaotic (ie non-linear), complex processes through change occurs. And of course, change need not be, and often is not, progressive......

    And this is true of any theory, particularly in the social sciences (and warfare, and war more general, is not a science). ‘Theory’, very simply speaking, is designed to highlight certain ‘relevant aspects’ and so aims to simplify. Which means no one theory ever explains everything (in spite of what the theorists may say). Heck, biologists, palaeontologists, and so on and so forth, have been refining Darwin’s concept of evolution virtually from the time he published Origins of the Species, and are working at refining it (and those that advocate intelligent design completely repudiate it).

    Ken, to my mind, has it right when he says:

    and I've learned something from every one of them
    Wisdom of the ages! And no, Ken, this is not a comment on your age (well, not much of one – I read an article recently arguing that there is a ‘correlation’ between age and wisdom, so you must be very wise ).

    There are four or five or six or seven or however many different theories, or approaches, or views, out there today putting forth an argument of one sort or another about what the future of warfare will be like. I seriously doubt whether any one of them has it exactly right (and this includes 4GW). Or maybe, even probably, whether any one of them has it anywhere near right except maybe in general, broad terms. I am in my normal state of being dazed and confused tonight but I think I am right that it was Michael Howard who observed that any view of future warfare will always be wrong in one or more respects or another, but the key is not to be completely wrong (no, not a quote).


    Wilf said:
    As a great military thinker once said, "A hamster can never defeat a bear, but many hamsters will make a good meal."
    Cryptic enough?
    Very cryptic. I was not aware that wild bears eat hamsters. At least not where I come from. Groundhogs, whistlers, old and young elk, ants, shoots, berries, the occasional human, and so on and so forth -- but not hamsters.

    But quibbling aside, this depends, does it not? The hamster, from its perspective, wins if it is not eaten by the bear, whereas from the bear’s perspective, he loses (ie goes hungry) if it does not catch the hamster. If hamsters cause the bear hairballs, and indigestion, is the discomfort worth the effort? Is the energy expended by the bear in catching one tiny hamster worth the energy gain of eating it? And further, if we adopt Dawkin’s ‘selfish gene’ perspective, as long as hamsters as a species exist and flourish, it does not matter how many a bear, or many bears, eat? These are interesting political questions. .

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    A couple of comments on zenpundit's latest blog entry on the subject of this thread - "A War of Words About 4GW":

    Admittedly, I am an admirer of GEN William E. DePuy, and he did have a fair bit of battle experience himself. But I think he put it quite well with regards to questions of "attrition" or "manoeuvre" approaches to warfare:

    Partly because maneuver doctrine is so inherently attractive to soldiers, it has generated its own excesses. In arguing its undoubted merits, proponents have apparently felt it necessary to contrast those virtues with the vices of alternative doctrine. The chief contrast has been drawn with the so-called tactics of attrition.

    Attrition is such an "ugly" doctrine that it claims no known or announced adherents, even though most wars finally have been resolved on that basis. Certainly it is permissible to be against attrition so long as the critic does not spread his anathema over the whole idea of fighting; not only fighting, but hard, bloody fighting, should that be necessary.


    Victory in such combat has classically gone to the commander who concentrates (and applies) superior combat power at the point and time of decision. We know, but sometimes forget, that there are two dimensions to concentration and two methods involved:

    * Concentration of forces in space via maneuver.
    * Concentration of actions in time via synchronization.

    This article's premise is that proper doctrine must seek both goals and employ both methods in ajudicious mix and that synchronization embraces a widening range of complex but essential functions.

    Lest this issue seem overdrawn, there are a number of very bright and influential young field grade officers who have contributed much to maneuver doctrine, who by their talent will remain influential in doctrinal matters throughout their careers and who are genuinely worried about what they perceive as a mutually exclusive relationship between maneuver and synchronization. The argument goes that synchronization smacks of set-piece warfare-a Montgomery perhaps, compared with a Rommel or a Patton. And if synchronization, therefore, means stopping the war for time-consuming, deliberate arrangements for every battle, then it will nullify the enormous benefits that otherwise would flow from rapid and bold maneuver.

    This is not a trivial issue. Perhaps the logic trap is in moving the discussion to the outer boundaries of each concept. One could visualize an army strangled and immobilized by its internal procedures for synchronization, every battle a Normandy landing or an El Alamein. Correspondingly, an army devoted to an endless bloodless ballet does not inspire much
    confidence.

    But extremes prove very little. Common sense tells us to move toward the center, to synthesize the virtues of each in a higher order of competence and professionalism-an Hegelian dialectic if you will. The remainder of this article, therefore, centers on synchronization with the goal of bringing that process up to a level of equal prominence with maneuver in doctrinal thinking throughout the Army.

    This is not an argument against maneuver doctrine. It accepts the primacy of maneuver as all supporting actions must be keyed to maneuver. The scheme of maneuver (concept of operation) is the first and great requirement. The second, which is like unto it, is synchronization.

    The history of war is replete with examples in which superior forces were concentrated for battles which were then lost to smaller but better-handled opponents.

    Gen. Sir Bernard L. Montgomery's predecessors in North Africa, with the notable exception of the unsung Gen. Sir Richard N. O'Connor, regularly assembled forces larger and potentially stronger than the Germans, and just as regularly were defeated. At Gazala, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel maneuvered himself into the rear of the British and into what the Germans themselves described as the witches cauldron. With the British commander, Gen. Sir Neil M. Ritchie in the rear, the Eighth Army never made a concerted and decisive move against the trapped Panzer Army. Individual British (Indian and New Zealand) brigades engaged the Germans as the spirit seized their various commanders or as they were forced to fight for survival. But Gen. Ritchie probably never generated, at any one time, more than ten to 20 percent of his army's latent power.

    Gen. Rommel, on the other hand, was actively present in the "cauldron" with his troops. He, personally, brought up his supply and ammunition trains, had a path cut back through the British mine field as a direct resupply route, issued orders to his force, routed the Eighth Army and went on to the Egyptian border-capturing Tobruk on the way. He synchronized the actions of his smaller force and developed more intensive combat power at the critical time.

    It is interesting to note that the deep enveloping maneuver of the Germans did not stampede the phlegmatic British. The mere presence of the whole Panzer Army in the British rear was not enough. Only when Gen. Rommel delivered a well-coordinated attack did the defense collapse. The psychological effects of maneuver can be overstated. British phlegm may have its counterpart in a Soviet command which is less than skittish.

    Finally, on this point, the French have a marvelously descriptive term for the tactics of a force so powerful and confident that it ignored the movements of the enemy and simply marched straight to its objective-"a maneuver of scorn."

    (From: "Towards a Balanced Doctrine" in Selected Papers of General William E. DePuy, Compiled by Richard M. Swain, pp.315-317.)


    It takes a great deal of time to marshall the resources required for attack compared to the time it may take to establish that for defence. Attack, by its very nature, normally requires a substantial degree of manoeuvre; defence, by comparison normally does not require the same degree of manoeuvre. And the resources required for Attack tend to considerably outweigh those required for Defence, and thus require much more time to assemble. In the meantime, the enemy must be held off, and this requires Defence even in the midst of preparing for Attack.

    Under the constrained conditions of war, Defence, and subsequently "Attrition", for lack of a more palatable term, is the norm; Attack, and subsequently "Maneouvre", is the intended decisive moment of action that the Defence has been building up to. Manoeuvre is necessary for victory, but it is not always necessarily available; "Attrition" is in effect a sort of typical condition, and not by any means necessarily as a result of Doctrine or inability or unwillingness to seek "Manoeuvre". This does not excuse those who eschew the opportunity to resort to "Manoeuvre" and instead resort to "Attrition". But when even the German Army, that model of MW that Lind holds up, spent most of its time in the later years of WWI and throughout most of WWII engaged in nothing less than "Attrition Warfare", and not by choice, then it is most important to bear in mind the practical limitations of Manoeuvre Warfare ("3GW") in particular, and 4GW Theory in general.

  8. #8
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TT View Post
    Y

    But quibbling aside, this depends, does it not? The hamster, from its perspective, wins if it is not eaten by the bear, whereas from the bear’s perspective, he loses (ie goes hungry) if it does not catch the hamster. If hamsters cause the bear hairballs, and indigestion, is the discomfort worth the effort? Is the energy expended by the bear in catching one tiny hamster worth the energy gain of eating it? And further, if we adopt Dawkin’s ‘selfish gene’ perspective, as long as hamsters as a species exist and flourish, it does not matter how many a bear, or many bears, eat? These are interesting political questions. .
    Oh but you don't Understand! As long as the hamsters seeks to shatter the bears situational awareness through a variety of rapid, focused, and unexpected actions, which create a turbulent and rapidly deteriorating situation with which the bear cannot cope, they can defeat the bear through an effects based approach!

    ...remember, 4th Generation Hamsters spend a lot time running on their OODA loops!
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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