All matters Rhodesian / Rhodesia (merged thread)

[BayonetBrant]

Personally, I think the Rhodesians got screwed, and the rest of the world is loath to admit it, because of the inevitable screams of 'racism' that will inevitably accompany anyone attempting to voice support for a post-colonial nation that had a white-skinned head of state resisting an "opposition" of black-skinned terrorists.


I'm interested in the lessons of Rhodesia at least in part to help avoid future catastrophes where superficial narratives obscure much deeper ethnic problems (paging Dr Kosovo!) and that the "public" solution often ends up being far worse than even status quo. Is Zimbabwe/Rhodesia really better off after 30 years of "self-determination" (read: "mugabe"-determination) than they would've been under the government that existing in 1974?


Additionally, the individual tales are, quite frankly, a riot to read.

[Condor]

JMA,

I appreciate the suggestions and I will try to pick up a copy of each. I believe it was member jcustis who made a statement something along the lines of "I don't think we [the US] are utilizing our rotary wing assets as efficiently or effectively as we could be". As a former US Marine helicopter pilot with a couple of tours in OIF, it struck me like a sledgehammer to the forehead that a fellow Marine (and ground pounder to boot if I am reading between the lines correctly) would say such a thing about his fellow brothers in the air. We have always prided ourselves (within the Marines) as providing our brothers on the ground with the best possible air support one could expect when the going gets rough. With that being said, after much self-reflection I believe there was some elements of truth to his claim. While I am no longer serving, I do think there is much to be gleaned from other air forces around the world and how they have operated and been successful (or failed). Some of what I have read recently on this topic piqued my interest so I have been trying to spend what little free time I have reading about the subject. While no doubt the size, uniqueness and intimacy that the Rhodesian Air Force enjoyed probably helped contribute to its successes (and the fact it was fighting for its very existence) one must wonder why there seems to be so little study on this subject? Politics aside, I do think there is a lot to learn from this period and with budget realities starting to hit the US Military maybe there will be some movement to start thinking creatively while retaining capable, effective and reliable aviation assets without breaking the bank. Unfortunately, I feel us Americans always want to buy the Ferrari rather than the Ford when it comes to military aircraft. Maybe that day is soon coming to an end. I've always argued we need more A-10 and CH-53E type aircraft and less F-35 and MV-22 type aircraft.

[JMA]

Condor,

From the book Africa's Commandos comes this quote:

“Fire Force was the end product of a philosophy, a philosophy that ignored the inter-service rivalry, vested interests, convention, rank, petty rule books and personal agendas so prevalent in the behaviour of the modern military. Fire Force was a manifestation of an ethos that like-minded commanders of all ranks and of all arms needed to combine their considerable talents in a collective effort to constantly evaluate the battlefield, to be self-critical in all analyses, and to strive to work for the greater good.” - NIGEL HENSON

Henson's article on fire force with superb diagrams in the book is a must read for those wishing to explore this aspect more.

I have been told by Brits and many from different US forces that this philosophy is not achievable in their systems due to interservice rivalry and other internal BS.

Would you agree?

JMA,

I appreciate the suggestions and I will try to pick up a copy of each. I believe it was member jcustis who made a statement something along the lines of "I don't think we [the US] are utilizing our rotary wing assets as efficiently or effectively as we could be". As a former US Marine helicopter pilot with a couple of tours in OIF, it struck me like a sledgehammer to the forehead that a fellow Marine (and ground pounder to boot if I am reading between the lines correctly) would say such a thing about his fellow brothers in the air. We have always prided ourselves (within the Marines) as providing our brothers on the ground with the best possible air support one could expect when the going gets rough. With that being said, after much self-reflection I believe there was some elements of truth to his claim. While I am no longer serving, I do think there is much to be gleaned from other air forces around the world and how they have operated and been successful (or failed). Some of what I have read recently on this topic piqued my interest so I have been trying to spend what little free time I have reading about the subject. While no doubt the size, uniqueness and intimacy that the Rhodesian Air Force enjoyed probably helped contribute to its successes (and the fact it was fighting for its very existence) one must wonder why there seems to be so little study on this subject? Politics aside, I do think there is a lot to learn from this period and with budget realities starting to hit the US Military maybe there will be some movement to start thinking creatively while retaining capable, effective and reliable aviation assets without breaking the bank. Unfortunately, I feel us Americans always want to buy the Ferrari rather than the Ford when it comes to military aircraft. Maybe that day is soon coming to an end. I've always argued we need more A-10 and CH-53E type aircraft and less F-35 and MV-22 type aircraft.

[JMA]

Personally, I think the Rhodesians got screwed, and the rest of the world is loath to admit it, because of the inevitable screams of 'racism' that will inevitably accompany anyone attempting to voice support for a post-colonial nation that had a white-skinned head of state resisting an "opposition" of black-skinned terrorists.

I'm interested in the lessons of Rhodesia at least in part to help avoid future catastrophes where superficial narratives obscure much deeper ethnic problems (paging Dr Kosovo!) and that the "public" solution often ends up being far worse than even status quo. Is Zimbabwe/Rhodesia really better off after 30 years of "self-determination" (read: "mugabe"-determination) than they would've been under the government that existing in 1974?

Additionally, the individual tales are, quite frankly, a riot to read.

The world is not yet ready or mature enough to discuss such matters rationally - as evidenced by the recent thread in the Journal. And that was arrogant yet totally ignorant Americans.

Better one looks to the current CAR and South Sudan for - once again - graphic proof of how thin the veneer of civiliazation really is. Have just spent a year in West Africa you can pull more examples from there. Not to mention Rwanda.

Disclaimer - before some luntic clown points a finger and screams racism at me I need to place on record that the Bosnia example proves (as did the Germans 70 years ago) how thin that veneer of civiliazation is universally.

But here we talk of Africa.

Xenophobia to the extent where people from different tribes/religions will be killed at a drop of a hat - if they stray into the wrong area - still exists as evidenced in many examples from across Africa on an almost daily basis (as it does in gang areas in LA and elsewhere).

The problem is that many Africans deny the existence of tribalism on the basis that it makes Africans look uncivilised and undeveloped ... and sadly there are idiots out there who believe this.

I had an experience in Mozambique about 20 years ago where at a program meeting which was attended a senior (female) USAID person (the donor) we all were told by her that there was no tribalism in Mozambique. I dared to ask her how she had arrived at this position and she responded - I kid you not - that her driver had assured her of this. (she was shagging her driver).

I realised at that moment that if relatively senior US decision makers on the loose in Africa were that gullible/ignorant then all was lost.

Twenty years on it has - in my humble opinion - got worse.