William S. Lind :collection (merged thread)

[wm]

wm... I am waiting for a response to this.

Your cheap shot should not go unchallenged as you are not setting the example of the 'morality' of officers which you espouse.

In the original post I noted the quotations were from Wikipedia. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bu...ron_Tweedsmuir. Perhaps you would like to refute the claims made therein and thereby prove my post was a "cheap shot.". (BTW, it has quite a bit more content to chew on than what is found at the Wikipedia link you provided for Lord Moran.) I also note that the source indicates Buchan was one of Alfred Milner's proteges in South Africa during Buchan's early career. Wasn't Milner responsible for management of the concentration camps where thousand of women and children died during the 2nd Boer War?

The convention is to cite the source of what you post. Just so I understand you, is this your personal opinion or where did you get this from?

This is my opinion. I "got" it from many years of reading, thinking, and talking with others in a wide variety of venues about the morality of war. I was going to start listing the sources, but came to the conclusion that compiling such a list covering about 50 years of such activity would be subject to error by exclusion and well outside the scope of this thread.

I submit you have missed the essential point.

The characteristics mentioned in my quotes from Buchan and Moran should be used during the selection process prior to officer training starting.

You talk of teaching virtues . Now the bad news is - using your example - is that you can't teach the 4 Cs.

I do not believe I missed the point. When I mentioned the 4C's, I tried to express (apparently not well) that the US Army taught that the 4C's were virtues, not that the Army taught others to be virtuous. (I hope I know my Aristotle well enough not to make that mistake.) Back in the day, the US Army's Leadership Field Manual FM22-100 portrayed examples of leaders demonstrating the 4Cs as part of its "Be, Know, Do" process, which, by the way, focuses on training not teaching, two very different things.

Please explain exactly how you would assess candidates for officer training prior to starting it. In the US Army, candidates are assessed during their training as officer candidates and cadets for such qualities. They may be terminated from commissioning programs for lack of aptitude--mental, physical, and/or leadership. They may also leave the programs voluntarily. A USMA graduate has been assessed for 4 years prior to receiving a commission, a ROTC candidate is assessed for at least a year, more usually 2-4 years. The shortest assessment time frame is for Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates at 12 weeks, but they have also had prior active service time as an enlisted member, which was used as part of the assessment for selection into OCS in the first place. Candidates for ROTC and USMA are also subject to assessment prior to being accepted into those programs.

A more important concern is who assesses the assessors? What qualities should they display?
USMA cadets are required to learn what they know as Worth's Battalion Orders:

But an officer on duty knows no one -- to be partial is to dishonor both himself and the object of his ill-advised favor. What will be thought of him who exacts of his friends that which disgraces him? Look at him who winks at and overlooks offenses in one, which he causes to be punished in another, and contrast him with the inflexible soldier who does his duty faithfully, notwithstanding it occasionally wars with his private feelings. The conduct of one will be venerated and emulated, the other detested as a satire upon soldiership and honor.

Brevet Major William Jenkins Worth

One trusts that the cadets "internalize" the sentiments expressed by Major Worth. But as President Reagan said, "Trust but verify." In the course of their education and training, cadets are also evaluated by the tactical and academic faculty on their character development and expression. A significant portion of their academic instructors and all their tactical instructors are military members for just this reason.