Troy University

**LawVol** · 07-31-2007

Anyone here ever take graduate classes at Troy as part of the International Relations program?

**slapout9** · 07-31-2007

LawVol, Troy University is in Alabama... the cultural center of the universe....you don't need to know anything else

**Tom Odom** · 07-31-2007

International Relations

In Alabama? Does that mean your sister is overseas?

Tom

**slapout9** · 07-31-2007

Tom,just goes to show you what a great program it is.......didn't know I had a sister??

**Steve Blair** · 07-31-2007

You know they're all just kin down thataway.....

We used to joke with friends in Missouri that "kin" means you don't have to try to figure out the family shrub, which can get confusing and downright embarrassing at family reunions.

Sorry for derailing the thread, LawVol. I haven't taken any classes from Troy, but I have heard that it's a good school. Are you looking at the distance ed stuff or actual resident work?

**Nat Wilcox** · 07-31-2007

Originally Posted by Steve Blair

You know they're all just kin down thataway...We used to joke with friends in Missouri that "kin" means you don't have to try to figure out the family shrub, which can get confusing and downright embarrassing at family reunions.

When I was a kid, I asked my "cousin Guy" (an ancient swamp-dweller in So. GA) how he and I were related. He said "Your great-great-great-Gramma's houndog caught a rabbit on my great-great-great-Grandaddy's land."

Yes seriously Lawvol: There is more than one Troy University. Which one?

**LawVol** · 07-31-2007

I didn't realize this post would generate such humorous responses! I almost fell out of my chair at Tom's comment.

I'm looking at the distance education program. Although I'm at AMU right now, I'm considering switching to Troy. I know the school has a decent reputation (that continues to grow) since I did my undergrad at a similar level school just across the state line in Georgia. However, I wanted to get some thoughts on the actual program. I've been satisfied with AMU and want to compare before determining whether to make the switch.

Eventually, I'd like to teach at a small college and I'm thinking that the Troy name, along with my law degree, might sell better than AMU. I guess I'm just mapping out the future. It drives my wife crazy, but I think its a holdover from having to do five-paragraph orders (does the infantry still do five paragraph orders, i.e. SMEAC?). Anyway, thoughts (and any jokes) are appreciated.

**tequila** · 07-31-2007

SMEAC is indeed still taught and punned on at the School of Infantry.

**Tom Odom** · 07-31-2007

.......didn't know I had a sister??

sounds like we need to make Joe Dirt II, International Relations

**SteveMetz** · 08-01-2007

Originally Posted by LawVol

I didn't realize this post would generate such humorous responses! I almost fell out of my chair at Tom's comment.

I'm looking at the distance education program. Although I'm at AMU right now, I'm considering switching to Troy. I know the school has a decent reputation (that continues to grow) since I did my undergrad at a similar level school just across the state line in Georgia. However, I wanted to get some thoughts on the actual program. I've been satisfied with AMU and want to compare before determining whether to make the switch.

Eventually, I'd like to teach at a small college and I'm thinking that the Troy name, along with my law degree, might sell better than AMU.

Colleges are obsessionally "brand conscious" when it comes to the educational background of their faculty. To be perfectly frank, Troy is seen in academia as a bottom tier program and I suspect you'd only find people trained there on the faculty of what are considered bottom tier colleges (as defined by factors such as the academic preparation of their students, the competitiveness of admission, graduation rates, etc.).

There would be no impediment for someone with a "big name" graduate degree getting a job at a less prestigious college, but it's much harder for someone with a degree from what is seen as a bottom tier program getting a job at a more selective college.

Here's a simple test: Google something like "faculty Troy State" and see where people they have produced end up.

I'm not defending or justifying the system but in terms of finding a college faculty position, you'd be much better off to be just one of the crowd from what is seen as an elite graduate institution than the best student ever at what is seen as a bottom tier one. The military professional educational system is something of an exception to this. Normally, simply having a terminal degree is what matters rather than where it came from. (My organization is something of an exception--we have traditionally been pretty heavy with Ivy Leaguers and those with degrees from other top tier places like Stanford, Chicago, and Johns Hopkins).

That said, a combination of a Ph.D. and a law degree would be very appealing because most colleges have large pre law programs and they always need someone to run it. I was in grad school with guys who had law degrees from Indiana and Harvard, and very successful practices, then decided they didn't like it. Heck, that's what Woodrow Wilson did.

**Mark O'Neill** · 08-01-2007

Hey Steve,

I just realised what time it is in Carlisle - and you are on the net? People up this early (well, not early for me as it is 1945hrs on Wednesday in Sydney) are either in the Military (pre-dawn PT), have new born infants, or are compulsive bed wetters

. What is your excuse ???

Cheers

Mark

**Nat Wilcox** · 08-01-2007

Originally Posted by SteveMetz

Colleges are obsessionally "brand conscious" when it comes to the educational background of their faculty.

This is definitely true. For instance, visit here:

http://www.sewanee.edu/Economics/faculty.html

Sewanee is (of course) a very fine small college. You will see here that the least prestigious "brand name" faculty source is Penn State; most of the faculty got their Ph.Ds from places like Brown, Northwestern, Cornell and Vanderbilt.

Of course, Sewanee is rather high up the small college hierarchy. Further down that hierarchy, the pedigree of faculty aren't quite so high-falutin'.

There is a little bit of a paradox here in that the small colleges are actually a little more brand-name conscious than larger state universities of similar rank (which care relatively more about research output, hence can be impressed by obvious research promise in a newly minted Ph.D such as publications and more in the pipeline). Even someone of the extraordinary rank of "distinguished professor" at a place like Sewanee need have none of the top coin of the realm (publications in the most competitive journals), which would never happen at the University of Alabama for instance.

But what Steve says is still universally true throughout U.S. academe.

One thing to remember, though, is that generally it is the research reputation of the individual Ph.D-granting department, rather than the overall public reputation of the university (say as capture by U.S. News and World Report's annual rankings), that opens doors to academic employment. At the very top, the two reputations coincide. But below this there is a lot of divergence, and there are some very high quality research departments in every field that are at universities that don't have public brand name appeal. You can get way up on this game by doing some homework...there is probably a program in the southeast with high-status researchers in your areas of interest. THEY are the ones who can open the doors...provided you work your ass off for them.

**LawVol** · 08-02-2007

Thanks for the insight. I suspected as much, but just needed to hear it I guess. Unfortunately, in-residence attendance isn't an option right now; the AF and cost are in the way. I'm using the tuition assistance and distance education to account for that. I always figured if the AF is willing to pay for a degree, I'll take them up on it. If it doesn't help me get a teaching position in the future, at least I've learned something. Although teaching pre-law at a small college in the pacific NW sounds very nice.

So I guess a master's from AMU or one from Troy won't make a difference then.

On another note, I've applied to an AF program that will send me to get a master's of law from one of two pretty good schools, so maybe there's hope.

**Dominique R. Poirier** · 08-02-2007

By the way, about good University and education.

“Yale plans to deliver a pilot of seven undergraduate courses to the public free of charge, via the Internet. Ultimately, the University aims to offer several dozen undergraduate courses spanning the range of liberal arts disciplines, including humanities, social science, and physical and biological sciences.
Each course will include a full set of class lectures produced in high-quality video. These lectures will be searchable and accompanied by text transcriptions, syllabi, and other course materials.

The first seven courses will be produced between September 2006 and June 2007 and will be available online starting in the fall of 2007.”

If it doesn’t give you a diploma, Yale’s courses are likely to be of some interest, at least. I am one among some who will attend them.

For more information, see:
http://www.yale.edu/opa/download/VLP...onsAnswers.pdf

**J Wolfsberger** · 08-02-2007

If you're interested in free, not for credit courses, check out MIT OpenCourseWare: http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html There's a huge number of offerings in a wide variety of fields at both undergraduate and graduate levels.

**Mike Spight** · 08-02-2007

My masters degree is in IR from Troy State University. As far as it being a Tier 2 school, I don't know nor do I care. The Army paid for it, I and 27 other PSYOP and CA officers attended at Ft. Bragg in a trailer right next to the SF Warrant Course, right across the field from the GB Sport Parachute Club from Aug 90-Aug 91.

I will say this; they brought in some great PhD types, to include a retired US Ambassador, as instructors. The gentleman who ran the program for Troy was a ME expert with undergrad and masters degrees from Univ of Maryland...PhD was from American University in Beruit...he spoke Hebrew and Arabic, his wife was a Syrian, and he ensured that we were focused on the program and cranking our our thesis...all in the space of 12 months, to include a written, comprehensive exam at the end of the year.

Is it the JFK School of Govt? No...was it free and OK, yes, even though my daughter described it as "BoBo U" whenever she wanted to bust my chops.

As in all things, YMMV.

And for the record, my undergrad degree is from the Univ of Southern Mississippi aka "The Harvard of Hardy Street"...it was free too, my GI bill paid for it!

**slapout9** · 08-02-2007

Mike,You go boy!!!!!!

Check out their football team, in another couple of years they will be in the big time.

**Mike Spight** · 08-03-2007

Slap, man, I know they are! And speaking of football, the guy who quarterbacked USM when I was a student was also in ROTC...he was commssioned in Dec 78, exactly one year before I was and branched FA.

He is now MG Jeff Hammond, Cdr, 4th ID. When he was quarterbacking the team, USM's Golden Eagles stayed in the nation's top 25, plus we smoked Ole Miss and State every year...life truly was good.