Militias Seizing Control of Iraqi Electricity Grid

[Anthony Hoh]

Turn off the generators, put every American FOB, JCOP, embassy, etc on the local grid. We could solve this in a month

[Stan]

Turn off the generators, put every American FOB, JCOP, embassy, etc on the local grid. We could solve this in a month

Tony, although I kind of agree, would that not cut off the locals from generated electricity ? If it did, we would have far more problems than insurgents, we would have some real helpless people and a potential refugee crisis.

We would also gain far more enemies than we already have.

Having worked high tension and Engineering, I'm interested in just what cutting off the grid entails.

Regards, Stan

[Anthony Hoh]

Stan,
I meant that we should take "our" infrastructure and place it onto the local power grid. To my knowledge we do not produce electricity for the general populace, "our" power mainly derives from portable powers sources. Generally huge GE travel trailers and contractors that we pay like rock stars to operate them provide electricity to our bases. While most Iraqis live with less that 6-8 hours of power a day, we run 24/7. Obviously, I am not suggesting we assume operational risk by shutting down our TOC’s and turning off our radios immediately. However leaving local governance to solve the problem has resulted in the article tequila has posted. If we make an earnest move to operate off of the local power grid, it would spur us to tackle the associated security issues along with the host nation forces. Leaving this to be solved by the current Iraqi government alone is the right answer. However its not getting better its getting worse. IMO American ingenuity will take over and find a way to get it straight, and by the way it would go a long way to help the target audience the Iraqi people.

Tony

[Stan]

Tony,

Stan,
I meant that we should take "our" infrastructure and place it onto the local power grid. To my knowledge we do not produce electricity for the general populace, "our" power mainly derives from portable powers sources. Generally huge GE travel trailers and contractors that we pay like rock stars to operate them provide electricity to our bases.

I don’t like that idea, but I’ll continue my rant first !

Actually, the ‘huge generators’ and local power stations are merely a stable power source, but the National Grid is the back-up for any/all instances such as surges, outages, etc.

Let’s not confuse the ‘National Grid’ for a Local Power Station, Sub Station or Distribution Grid.

Although we can attribute some of the power problems to insurgent sabotage, there’s more to it than that. High electrical demands, fuel shortages and worse yet, local power stations attached to the National Grid ‘pulling the plug’. The local stations are trying to keep their respective towns with power, but the National Grid is demanding (if you will) more. The System was designed to work together, not dump half and hope for the best.

While most Iraqis live with less that 6-8 hours of power a day, we run 24/7.

I’ve lived in Sub-Sahara for over 10 years with less than 6 to 8 hours of power a day. It’s no big deal. Those people have been doing this since before you were born, and they’ll continue to. Their National Grid was on the brink of collapse without insurgency. This is not rumor, rather fact.

Obviously, I am not suggesting we assume operational risk by shutting down our TOC’s and turning off our radios immediately. However leaving local governance to solve the problem has resulted in the article tequila has posted. If we make an earnest move to operate off of the local power grid, it would spur us to tackle the associated security issues along with the host nation forces.

I’ve read far too many posts herein discussing the already stretched Army. Are we suggesting the Corps of Engineers come in and run the National Grid and run around restoring power from the local power stations, so the grid will remain stable ?

Leaving this to be solved by the current Iraqi government alone is the right answer.

Tony, it may be, but it isn’t happening. Hence my concern over mega death and a full blown refugee crisis in the making.

However its not getting better its getting worse. IMO American ingenuity will take over and find a way to get it straight, and by the way it would go a long way to help the target audience the Iraqi people.

Tony

Correct, 1,000 Percent. There’s no ingenuity...it’s basic electrical theory, low voltage and high tension, been around since Christ was a Corporal.

Regards, Stan

[Anthony Hoh]

Tony,

Let’s not confuse the ‘National Grid’ for a Local Power Station, Sub Station or Distribution Grid.

Ok Stan,
Obviously you have an extensive knowledge of electricity, an forgive my lack of expertise, but would not the national grid be comprised of these local power stations and sub stations that you referred to?

For your reference:
http://www.energymanagertraining.com...ower_Grids.htm

Whether it is a transmission substation, power plant, or high voltage transmission line they are interconnected. If they are not interconnected than I believe that it reinforces my point that we should get involved.

Although we can attribute some of the power problems to insurgent sabotage, there’s more to it than that. High electrical demands, fuel shortages and worse yet, local power stations attached to the National Grid ‘pulling the plug’. The local stations are trying to keep their respective towns with power, but the National Grid is demanding (if you will) more. The System was designed to work together, not dump half and hope for the best.

Ok how does that argue against us not getting involved?

Those people have been doing this since before you were born, and they’ll continue to. Their National Grid was on the brink of collapse without insurgency. This is not rumor, rather fact.

I feel this deals with perception, if I had more electricty under a previous regieme and less now. What is wrong now.

I’ve read far too many posts herein discussing the already stretched Army. Are we suggesting the Corps of Engineers come in and run the National Grid and run around restoring power from the local power stations, so the grid will remain stable ?

Yes absolutly, let them watch T.V. sit in air conditionaing and "chill" (pardon the pun) out.

Tony, it may be, but it isn’t happening. Hence my concern over mega death and a full blown refugee crisis in the making.

I think we could agree the refugee crisis is made, especially if we asked Iran, Jordan, or Syria. Perhaps restoring basic services could be a way to entice people back home.

Correct, 1,000 Percent. There’s no ingenuity...it’s basic electrical theory, low voltage and high tension, been around since Christ was a Corporal.

Never knew Jesus Christ to be a Corporal.

Best to you as well,
Tony

[Stan]

Hey Tony,
Sorry, took a break for Dinner
Before I answer your questions below, I'd now like a tad bit of clarity from your first post.

Which was:

Turn off the generators, put every American FOB, JCOP, embassy, etc on the local grid. We could solve this in a month

Sorry, but I may have misunderstood what exactly you were saying, as it turns out you are now agreeing with me (to get involved and not shut the National Grid down.

Err, what ?

Ok Stan,
Obviously you have an extensive knowledge of electricity, an forgive my lack of expertise, but would not the national grid be comprised of these local power stations and sub stations that you referred to?

For your reference:
http://www.energymanagertraining.com...ower_Grids.htm

Whether it is a transmission substation, power plant, or high voltage transmission line they are interconnected.

I thought I just said that ? But, you're indeed correct, the system was designed to work with everything attached, if you will.

If they are not interconnected than I believe that it reinforces my point that we should get involved.

Sorry, I didn't get the impression you were advocating direct involvement, rather a shut down. My Bad !

I feel this deals with perception, if I had more electricty under a previous regieme and less now. What is wrong now.

Yes absolutly, let them watch T.V. sit in air conditionaing and "chill" (pardon the pun) out.

Well, not only perception, they've had power failures since the mid-80s. OK, it's not fair to say that they are 'adjusted' and no longer need help.

I think we could agree the refugee crisis is made, especially if we asked Iran, Jordan, or Syria. Perhaps restoring basic services could be a way to entice people back home.

I believe you sit next to an individual who can tell you about Operation Support Hope(less). Restoration of 'normal' and just how fast those 800,000 returned.

Never knew Jesus Christ to be a Corporal.

Best to you as well,
Tony

Forgive me, that's a very old Army expression from the early 70s that I refuse to give up. There's plenty more where that came from

Take care, Stan

[Anthony Hoh]

Sorry, but I may have misunderstood what exactly you were saying, as it turns out you are now agreeing with me (to get involved and not shut the National Grid down.

Err, what ?

What in my first post says shut down the national grid? I said we need to turn the generators off. We (a.k.a Army) primarily run off of generator power. My point is when we get off of generator power, get involved with the local populace and fix the nation power grid (however you/we/I choose to define its contents)

Stan,
I honestly believe that will never happen until we get off of generator power and "hook up" to the national grid. Its too easy to look at the power issue as an Iraqi problem. When we make it our problem it would get solved faster. I agree the Army and probably the Corp of Engineers specfically is overtasked. Lets think about that, our Bazillon dollar embassay,MWR swimming pools, McDonalds, and Baskin Robins 31 flavors could be out in the back drop for a bit. To solve this issue.

Dont you think?