Officer Retention

[selil]

My favorite example of this is when teachers are required to take tests on Bloom's Taxonomy (in ed school normally) and don't understand that just because you can give answers on something doesn't mean you understand it. There is a difference between the ability to give answers about something and the capability to abstractly apply, modify, reapply, evaluate and modify is a logical leap many people will never make it. The reason I love this example is that Bloom's taxonomy is all about that.

It's interesting you mention Bloom. When he wrote his taxonomy back in the 1950's he got a lot of nasty comments. The idea that you could create a taxonomy of learning was preposterous. It had been done before, but there was a lot of people who considered knowledge to be like water and brains to be buckets. Knowledge was a quantity to be poured in not absorbed or used.

Now we accept Bloom and his hierarchy and apply concepts like outcome based education, and learning objectives to everything. Yet to often we find people down around level 1 or 2 defining, describing, reciting, instead of climbing up the ladder to synthesis. Get out the bucket and pour some more knowledge in so to speak.

Sun Tzu is great, but tell me how it relates to the current conflict and better yet give me a reasoned argument about how it was applied in a previous conflict and use that as a model in the future conflict that we don't know about. Tell me how the operation of a laser jet printer sitting on my desk is similar to the operation of a TOW 2 Missile System. Drawing correlations between disparate ideas to create new patterns of knowledge is what we are really trying to do.

I remember as a low and rough corporal watching as a lt. scrambled and couldn't figure out what to do when one of our guys walked backwards of a ledge on the rim of Lava Lake. I jumped down in the ditch and was doing the breathing, beating, bleeding number telling my buddy he was an idiot. The Lt. was standing there kind of looking numb. My staff sgt. took the Lt. and said "Sir, don't you think we should call for a corpsman", "Sir, don't you think you should call Company", so on and so on and so on. Perceived power rested on the gold of the Lt's collar but reality placed on staff sgts hands.

I don't blame the Lt. for freezing in such a mundane no fire no issue kind of situation. Somebody walking backwards off a cliff kind of caught me by surprise too. I watched the staff sgt. and learned you didn't have to beat the Lt. senseless and you never stop learning. I also learned that you can't teach an autonomic response to everything. Some things you just have to experience. When I've told this story in the past I also mention something else. I learned that in the Marines teamwork go's down and UP the chain of command. You can't learn that in a book.

[jcustis]

A very wise man (my 1st Bn cmdr as an officer) told me once that we are actually professionals because we have our own terminology, much the same as doctors, lawyers, and bankers do.

He believed that the ability to kick a football through uprights, dunk a basketball, or hit a homerun did not make one a professional, so I think differing terminologies are fine, and I see that you agree to some extent.

Grammar, diction, and eloquence are good for only three things in my mind. The first is writng a fitness report on a subordinate. Second, we have to be abe to write good awards. Finally, we must be able to write a good eulogy for our fallen brethren. All else is secondary.

I think we'd be hard pressed to find a servicemember who left the service because they felt other professions held a prejudice against them as uneducated, or folks who have overlooked the military as a possible career for the same reasons. The reasons are a lot more primal and basic.

A man or woman is either going to be adventurous and take the plunge into the military, or they won't. That they come from a region like the northeast (where I attended college), bears little on the process if they already have it in their heart. They often do not have it in their heart due to the affluence they have enjoyed all of their life. Put another way, if you are close to your banker father and understand a bit about his profession, wouldn't you be more inclined to follow the same path as you become an adult? If you drove a Saab in college because it was handed down from Mom or Dad, you're going to feel that pull to follow in their footsteps because you want a Saab later on.

The Northeast is rife with family traditions. Same prep school path...same Ivy League education. "Well Biff, remember that there's that associate partner position waiting for you once you finish school...hmmm...hmmm." Recent military service may simple not be one of them, so it is difficult to maintain that chain.

Personally, I'd rather stand beside a chaw-chewing, backwards-ass officer or NCO who was a hard mofo and knew how to issue simple orders,than someone who could recite the significance of Waterloo. That's for the folks on the History Channel to take care of.

Don't get me wrong, I've thought long and hard about the issue of drawing the right folks into the officer corps. Society in general has changed since the 50s and 60s, and without a bipolar state opponent breathing down our necks, perhaps the issue of retention boils down to the fact that some members don't want to roll the dice for the third, fourth, or fifth time and die in the process. I dunno...

[slapout9]

Personally, I'd rather stand beside a chaw-chewing, backwards-ass officer or NCO who was a hard mofo and knew how to issue simple orders,than someone who could recite the significance of Waterloo. That's for the folks on the History to take care of.

Somebody say Amen....!!!!!!

[RTK]

Somebody say Amen....!!!!!!

I can't. I have a dip in.

[Adam L]

Amen... I think you pretty much summed everything up.

I can't. I have a dip in.

?I don't get it.?

[Stan]

I can't. I have a dip in.

?I don't get it.?

Adam, allow me to clarify from the Urban Dictionary

Dip is a form of smokeless tobacco that is cut more fine than regualar chewing tobacco. Large amounts of nicotine are absorbed through the gums and mouth tissue and goes directly to the blood stream, creating a buzz that lasts around 15 minutes. This buzz only lasts until you become tolerant to the drug; people who are heavy users only receive a state of satisfaction and relaxation.

I'm however unsure just how much RTK needs for a buzz

[Adam L]

Adam,

I can see your point. Sorry I did not see it that way at first. Upon first reading it came across as an attack on Sun Tzu to which I will always take exception.

V/R

Dave

I'm exactly the same way.

Adam, allow me to clarify from the Urban Dictionary


Quote:
Dip is a form of smokeless tobacco that is cut more fine than regualar chewing tobacco. Large amounts of nicotine are absorbed through the gums and mouth tissue and goes directly to the blood stream, creating a buzz that lasts around 15 minutes. This buzz only lasts until you become tolerant to the drug; people who are heavy users only receive a state of satisfaction and relaxation.
I'm however unsure just how much RTK needs for a buzz

Thanks for the explanation!

Adam

[tequila]

Adam L - Don't feel bad. As a fellow New Yorker, I never knew what dip was until I went to School of Infantry.

[Adam L]

Adam L - Don't feel bad. As a fellow New Yorker, I never knew what dip was until I went to School of Infantry.

Thanks. I don't know if I felt bad, just really confused. LOL

Thanks,
Adam

[Tom Odom]

Adam L - Don't feel bad. As a fellow New Yorker, I never knew what dip was until I went to School of Infantry.

And one should never confuse dip with dipsh#t.

[wm]

Adam L - Don't feel bad. As a fellow New Yorker, I never knew what dip was until I went to School of Infantry.

Yawl boys grew up deprived. I was born and raised in the Hudson River Valley, but I managed to have a few excursions out of the Empire State when I was coming along that enabled me to know about dipping and chewing (or more correctly, chawin'). You might want to investigate things like Skoal and Copenhagen. The phrase "...just a pinch between cheek and gum. . . " comes to mind. Now the joys of Beechnut (and I don't mean the chewing gum) and Red Man are a wholely different matter.

Being from the cultural center of the Universe let me splain this stuff to y'all.

You Dip.....Snuff......from a can!

Dipping is the proper TTP to used against the target....a can a snuff!

Slapout,
While I agree about your locale as being close to the cultural center of the universe (actually I think it is in Scotland Neck, NC) you want to be careful talking about snuff outside of the US. When I was stationed in Germany, we used to do snuff rounds with the owner of our favorite Gasthaus--it definitely had no relation to dipping smokeless. Nose-blowing the next morning was always a disgusting experience.

[max161]

Sun Tzu is great, but tell me how it relates to the current conflict and better yet give me a reasoned argument about how it was applied in a previous conflict and use that as a model in the future conflict that we don't know about. Tell me how the operation of a laser jet printer sitting on my desk is similar to the operation of a TOW 2 Missile System. Drawing correlations between disparate ideas to create new patterns of knowledge is what we are really trying to do. .

Selil,

With all due repsect I have to take exception to your Sun Tzu comment. Sun Tzu (and Clausewitz for that matter) are not authors of "how to" books. They do not provide the answers to complex political-military problems within their pages. They stimulate critical thought and analysis. They can help you to learn how to think but not want to think. They are neither prescriptive nor proscriptive. Both authors contribute to the ideal leader that Clausewitz was trying to develop - one with coup d'oiel or the inner eye - e.g., the genius for war. A leader can only develop this through a combination of intellect/study combined with experience which is designed to create a commander (and leaders and staff at all levels) who can cut through the fog and friction of war and make the right decision at the right time. Every conflict can be analyzed using Sun Tzu and Clausewitz but the answer to the second part of your question is unanswerable. We don't directly "apply" Sun Tzu or Clausewitz in the Jominian sense (as in principles of war or a checklist or task list to accomplish) but through the study of Sun Tzu and Clausewitz military (and political) leaders are developed who can devise strategy, orchestrate campaigns and successfully execute operations across the spectrum of political-military conflict - and in today's realm of conflict as well.

Respectfully,

Dave

[Adam L]

That's not what he was saying. The Quote you have is an example of the type of thinking and extrapolation that Blooms Taxonomy seeks to evaluate. He was not attacking Sun Tzu or Clausewitz. He using the questions to demonstrate the type of analysis he was describing. Take a look at Blooms Taxonomy here. It is not the best description but you can get the idea.

Adam

[max161]

That's not what he was saying. The Quote you have is an example of the type of thinking and extrapolation that Blooms Taxonomy seeks to evaluate. He was not attacking Sun Tzu or Clausewitz. He using the questions to demonstrate the type of analysis he was describing. Take a look at Blooms Taxonomy here. It is not the best description but you can get the idea.

Adam

Adam,

I can see your point. Sorry I did not see it that way at first. Upon first reading it came across as an attack on Sun Tzu to which I will always take exception.

V/R

Dave