Imaginary Chechens Attack!

[tequila]

Superb post on how disinformation can leak into the press and thinktank world. Afghanistanica examines the idea of swarms of Chechen fighters in Afghanistan.

Mod's Note: this link no longer works, see Post No.9 for new link

My favorite example of this was in Bing West's No True Glory where he implies that Chechen fighters fought against Marines in Falluja.

[Stan]

Superb post on how disinformation can leak into the press and thinktank world. Afghanistanica examines the idea of swarms of Chechen fighters in Afghanistan.

My favorite example of this was in Bing West's No True Glory where he implies that Chechen fighters fought against Marines in Falluja.

Indeed a great post, Tequila !

Some of the captions for the 'pics' are hilarious such as:

Pic: “We ain’t in Afghanistan. We in Moscow”

Who was saying this about the Chechens? Usually it was journalists, American officers or other US government spokespersons. It usually went something like this: “Yeah, we’re fighting the hardcore al Qaeda troops right now. You know, Arabs, Uzbeks, Malaysians, um….Uyghurs……and…uh …..the reanimated zombie corpses of Confederate soldiers and Chechens.” OK, maybe they did not actually say Malaysians but you get the point.

Pic: “Dude! The IMU has no Chechens. And I’m even running low on Uzbeks. If things keep up like this It’ll be just me.”

Actually, the only thing here that is definitely true is the part about the embassy, which was very small and had the worst embassy parties ever.

[tequila]

In something of the same vein: Spot the Chechen!

[Tom Odom]

I found this to be the salient point:

So who is telling these “misrepresentations of reality?” The originators would be the Russian FSB and the Kremlin, trying to tie in the fight against the Chechens into the American war on terror and legitimizing their operations in Chechnya. Many in the Russian media picked this up and ran with it. They were very soon joined by American journalists who were repeating the Russian journalists, and most importantly, the US Department of Defense. The DoD likely did so out of sheer ignorance (an ignorance shared by many stateside). However, it is possible that the desire to show Russia the need for an American base in Central Asia to support the war in Afghanistan was a motivating factor. Also, the US would like to portray the resistance to them in Afghanistan as coming from crazed Jihadis from far off lands when really it’s coming from locals and Pakistanis. This joined the Americans and the Russians in some mutually beneficial storytelling.

[tequila]

Indeed, and it is remarkable that so many American military personnel are quoted, apparently eager to swallow such mythmaking.

The phenomenon of supposed Chinese Uyghur jihadis is probably similar to the Chechen myth. See the classification of Uyghur Muslim groups as al-Qaeda affiliates in the wake of 9/11, likely with info provided by the Chinese government. IIRC the only Uighurs captured in Afghanistan were essentially acquitted of any terrorist connections and eventually deported to Albania out of fears that they would be tortured if sent home to China.

[Tom Odom]

Indeed, and it is remarkable that so many American military personnel are quoted, apparently eager to swallow such mythmaking.

The phenomenon of supposed Chinese Uyghur jihadis is probably similar to the Chechen myth. See the classification of Uyghur Muslim groups as al-Qaeda affiliates in the wake of 9/11, likely with info provided by the Chinese government. IIRC the only Uighurs captured in Afghanistan were essentially acquitted of any terrorist connections and eventually deported to Albania out of fears that they would be tortured if sent home to China.

regrettable bvut not surprising....we see bad guys everywhere when we get into these things. My experience as a historian looking at the Congo in 64 and Zaire in 78 taught me to be wary of this phenomenon. In 64 Congo, it was the Chinese and in 78 Zaire it was Cubans. In reality the Communist push tpo take control of the 64 Simba Crisis came after the US-Belgian operations in Stanleyville and Paulis as well as the US-Belgian Merc operation. The main player was Che as Castro's agent of change and he failed miserably, defeated by anti-Castro merc US hired forcesw with US SOF assistance. In 78 Zaire the real intervention from Warsaw Pact forces apparentlly was East German, but the Carter Adminstration started screaming the "Cubans are coming."

The real problem then becomes sorting out the chaff and the wheat. WHo is really out there and what is he doing versus the "boogie man in the closet" we don't want to open.

Best

Tom

[bourbon]

The burly Chechen foreign fighter who is about to bludgeon to death with his AK-47 a decidedly disadvantaged 5 foot 4 130 lb female soldier does not care about the feminist cause, or equal rights, or her entirely unrelated score on the joke that is the PT test.

There is little confirmed evidence of Chechens in Afghanistan or Iraq. The Chechens have taken an almost mythical nature.

[Deus Ex]

There is little confirmed evidence of Chechens in Afghanistan or Iraq. The Chechens have taken an almost mythical nature.

I've know a captain (now major) who deployed with special forces to Afghanistan and personally killed Chechens.

If you read "House to House" about the Battle of Fallujah, Chechens were recorded as being there.

Just saying.

[Deus Ex]

There is little confirmed evidence of Chechens in Afghanistan or Iraq. The Chechens have taken an almost mythical nature.

By the way, my original post was not meant to spark a debate about Chechens. You could have substituted any of the foreign fighters we encounter in Afghanistan or Iraq. Kind of pedantic, no? My point was not to talk about Chechens, but rather the physical disparity between men and women.

That said, I found your article very interesting. If you are correct, i've honestly learned something.

[Mondor]

There is little confirmed evidence of Chechens in Afghanistan or Iraq. The Chechens have taken an almost mythical nature.

I guess my team's experience was on of the little confirmed bits of evidence. Of course our intel analyst only spoke Russian and Turkish, this being back in '02.