I'll try to remember to share with you an example of the Marine Corps' Pre-Deployment Training Program (PTP). It is pretty well organized, and although I don't have access to all of the classes, it is a good starting point.
I'm perplexed though, are you active duty and deploying as part of a larger unit, or AR/NG and about to mobilize and fall in on a gaining force command.
Either way, why hasn't HHQ directed the tasks that your Soldiers need to be proficient in? Or has that guidance been poor?
j,Originally Posted by jcustis
PM enroute to you....
Example is better than precept.
j,
Not NG. (Read Profile) We are getting your standard stuff. However, I would like to expand and go more in depth. Appreciate any help you can provide.
I wouldn't bother using any of the standard directed PTP courses. If the Army's is anything like the Marine Corps', it's a joke. (And most of the Marine Corps' consists of Army classes) I've been thinking about this issue for a while. The issue is training high school kids in the graduate level of war, to use a cliched analogy. Are you going to pull a high school senior out of AP Biology and then give him a test from an M.A. Molecular Biology course? No. But that's what we need to do. I haven't really come up with an answer yet, although I think Mojave/Cajun Viper is a step in the right direction. I do know that Death by Powerpoint ain't it. The problem isn't just with young enlisted soldiers. You're one of the select few company grade officers that "get it." We can debate every aspect of COIN to the smallest intellectual minutiae and have a grand old time doing it, but until Lieutenants like you and me and NCOs that "get it" come up with a good way to engage those officers, NCOs, and nonrates, make them "get it" and make them believe in it, we're spinning our wheels.
I fortunately don't have to deal with it at the moment. I'm deploying with a MTT team in December and all of our enlisted Marines volunteered quite enthusiastically. They already get it. Good luck with yours.
So are you saying, Xenophon, that directing a Marine to know his IFAK, crew-served proficiency, and IED awareness, is a joke?
Remember, we're talking individual skills here, not collective stuff at Blocks III, IV and V. Have you been through a PTP rotation? While CLS training may be based off of Army precepts, I'm not sure where you can substantiate that the majority of classes are Army in nature. They may be joint, but by all means, they are definitely Marine flavored or at least should be driven by the commander as such.
I don't think anyone says you have to use death by Powerpoint. In fact, there is no better way to train IED awareness than to do it in the field, while moving tactically.
Last edited by jcustis; 09-08-2007 at 06:16 PM.
There is no substitute for UXO and/or IED/IEDD training. One cannot and does not train EOD from Powerpoint. It's hands on or death.
The courses from LE, Army, Marines and Navy are one in the same. 'bout time we realized that at the end of each day, we are still on the same team - Officers or NCOs, Army or Marines.
This is not a joke.
Amen to that
Parochialism is more damaging to us than AQ et.al. ever will be...
A collaborative effort by the PSGs and LTs in my unit have come up with a list of things they would like to accomplish so far.
CLS refresher.....scenario based
Land Nav....open terrain and urban (we will use Killeen)
Individual weapons refreshers
Crew serve weapons refreshers
Battle Drills
Convoy Trainer (Interactive trainer, uses tv screens etc.)
IED training....scenario based
none of which are COIN concepts, but your regular soldier skills
COIN Related
Region Orientation (Struggle with this, S2 related)
Culture training (We have an Iraqi Professor, very good source)
I will add to the list based on what I have seen here
Route and Area Recon
Bilateral Talks....scenario and classes(Both soldier and Leader)
What else?
Like some suggestions for simple reads for them. I would like for them to read The Ugly American, comments on that are welcome.
Spot on.Parochialism is more damaging to us than AQ et.al. ever will be...
Those whose experience or knowledge base is only powerpoint deep scare me. I usually get out of their SDZ as fast as possible. It's like demo. There's the classroom calculations then there's the emplacement. If you don't know how to emplace the boom boom on the bridge, I don't care how good you are at the Sheffield Method.
Your last part is something I live every day. I teach at "The" Armor School. I have USMC, US Army, and other nation students in my classes. It isn't the US Army Armor school, it's The Armor School. My Devilpups do the same things the Army guys do. It's one team, one endstate - to win.
Example is better than precept.
Sumarize for me, if you will, your biggest issue. I'm not sure I "get it." Further, what's your proposed fix to the issue?
Example is better than precept.
These are all refreshers, not initial training.
Man alive I didn't think there would be so much criticism for opening up a subject like this. I am just trying to tie up any loose ends and add a few more things to our kit bag before we go. I don't want to be a jerk but I would appreciate subject areas to cover and not ridicule for a unit you know nothing about. I apologize if I made it sound like we haven't been preparing, nor has our higher command been feeding us requirements. I will be more clear next time.
Last edited by Strategic LT; 09-09-2007 at 06:46 PM.
Illegitimi non Carborundum
You're doing what you should be doing and apparently doing it well. No apology is required of you. Keep on keepin' on.
Strategic LT,
You are doing what you need to do as far s the train-up goes. Your big COIN focus is that you are apparently preparing your soldiers to perform non-traditional artillery tasks which is good. The biggest thing that you can teach your soldiers at the platoon level are the following things:
Treat the locals with dignity in respect (sounds easy, until you are hot, tired, hungry, and IED'd) You and your soldiers have to understand patience and keeping tempers under control. That is a key COIN task at the platoon level.
Train and Educate your soldiers as how to discern the information pearls that come up from the people. You and your guys are where the proverbial rubber meets the road. You and your soldiers will become intimately familiar with an area and its people. You guys are going to be successful if you figure out how to judge what is a legitimate piece of intelligence and what is settling a grudge.
Most COIN readings focus on issues that are bigger issues than normally dealt with at the platoon level. At the platoon level, good TTP's are usually enough to keep yourselves safe, and to keep the "bad guys" heads down. The COIN spin is your interaction with the locals. If you and your soldiers understand the above two points you guys will do just fine. Good Luck.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks