Is this a violation of ROE or not?

[Culpeper]

U.S. Snipers Allegedly 'Baited' Iraqis

In Vietnam our troops would lay down a rifle on a trail that was booby trapped to explode when someone fired it. I don't see a problem with snipers baiting targets with the right bait. I'm wondering how others feel about this type of inflicting casualties since we used these tactics in Vietnam and nobody seemed to think it was a problem as far as I know.

[Shek]

My answer would depend on the details; however, since we don't have these details, anything would simply be speculation and best not to comment on (both because of the speculative nature and because of the OPSEC implications).

[SWJED]

My answer would depend on the details; however, since we don't have these details, anything would simply be speculation and best not to comment on (both because of the speculative nature and because of the OPSEC implications).

Well said...

[Rex Brynen]

Well said...

...although....

I would have thought that in an environment where looting and resale is commonplace, there's almost nothing one could leave around as "bait" that civilians wouldn't think of carting off (weapons, munitions, other equipment)--and where the local political ramifications of this were potentially rather negative were a non-combatant to be shot by a sniper in such a trap.

[Rank amateur]

I would have thought that in an environment where looting and resale is commonplace, there's almost nothing one could leave around as "bait" that civilians wouldn't think of carting off

That's my concern and there doesn't seem to be a shortage of guys planting IEDs who unquestioningly deserve to be shot.

[Hippasus]

"nobody seemed to think it was a problem as far as I know"

This seems to me to be exactly the problem. How on earth do we know why someone might be picking this stuff up? Are they simply some parent who doesn't want their kids finding it? Do they intend to turn it in to CF? Those scenarious are equally as valid as somone picking it up to make an IED. The simple fact is we don't know, so how do we justify killing them without any further information?

This is an example of a "type 1" or "false positive" error. If/when we make a mistake in this situation, we have set up a situation where we kill people innocent of any crime. The type 1 error is morally worse than the "type 2" or "false negative" error - which is why our entire justice system is based on the premise of "relasing 10 guilty men before 1 innocent man goes to jail."

Are Iraqi civilians worth less than this? Do we allow our fear of attacks on our soldiers to push us to create situations where we reduce risk to ourselves by accepting, if we're wrong about the intentions of those picking up the materials, the deaths of innocent people? That's not what I thought I the value of "courage" meant. And it's not "choosing the harder right." I hope we stop this, and soon.

[goesh]

If one believes it is acceptable to kill those who would kill you, then it is likewise perfectly acceptable to want to continue living and lure such folks to a quick death. If one believes the US and coalition forces have no right being in Iraq, then little yellow sticky notes written in Arabic should be attached to the bait that read, "don't pick this item up or weapons will be discharged at you".

[Culpeper]

I should have narrowed down the type of opinions I was seeking. I'm only seeking comments based on what is implicated or described in the article itself. We do a lot of speculation on these forums concerning tactics currently employed and mostly in the form of criticism with somewhat disregard to OPSEC. It almost can't be avoided. Personally, I think a tactic described in the article is perfectly fine under the right time and place and nobody should be under any type of investigation based on past tactics that were accepted and the press should be ashamed that they printed something that definitely has an OPSEC implication. I'm starting to notice a lot of slow news days out of Iraq lately and this is just a poor excuse to print something...anything. It is a little vacant to chill a thread because someone feels what is published in the press makes some people awkward discussing. If this held true throughout the forum than at least half these threads would be speculative in nature with OPSEC implications.