Engaging the Mosque

[Tom Odom]

Just a brief note of clarification folks

First of all, mosques like churches, synagogues, and temples are not all the same. Cookie cutters don't work. A village mosque is but a room with a tower most likely. The Ummayyid Mosque is huge and like a Roman Catholic Church is rich.

Second the religion using those mosques are not out of a cookie cutter, either. A Shia mosque will have more interaction and greater tendancy to be what we would call "activist". A Sunni mosque is less so but that is not absolute.

Third the role of the religious leaders in that mosque has many variables tied to points one and two as well as tribal, national, and linguistics. A mosque in a non-Arab country (meaning non-Arabic speaking country) generally does not import a large contigent to run it; again that can vary,

If that sounds simplistic, it is usually quite simple to point out complexity. I have not seen anything that proscribes interaction with local religious leaders regardless of sect or status. What I have seen are cautions in doing so and rightly so. Committing a faux pas with a tribal leader is not a good thing; doing so and depending on the degree of the error, it can be devestating to local relations. My guidance to anyone is if you must do so, do so gently and carefully. If not, go even more slowly and do your homework ==and I mean specifically on the mosque and community as well as general studies.

Best

Tom

[kehenry1]

If not, go even more slowly and do your homework ==and I mean specifically on the mosque and community as well as general studies.

I think this is why I posed it as a "power structure" or "organization" of the community issue. Noting consistently, that we should identify its role in the community to determine what exactly we should do to engage.

One point I made on the blog post on the subject and will now make here:

Whatever its role in the community, by not engaging the mosque, even if it is not "activist" like a Shia controlled mosque or religious leaders, we are leaving space in the "human terrain" of the community for the enemy to exploit.

Regardless of whether it is "activist" or not, the church/mosque/temple etc has a voice of authority in communities among a large portion of it.

I am reminded of a few situations:

Hanifa Mosque in Baghdad that routinely broadcast Anti-American messages from the loudspeakers, housed insurgents and cached weapons. We were so fearful of engaging there that we let that go for several years before they finally arrested the Imam (I believe that is what happened, though he was eventually let go).

Secondly, Ramadi and Fallujah both report that the enemy either coerced or convinced the mosques there to do the same.

did we leave exploitable human terrain because of that fear? and, how many of our men and women paid the price for that? (Not to be confrontational, but you see where I am coming from; this isn't all academic, philosophical sociology here; it has a direct impact).

Caution, yes. Dread, no.

[SWJED]

Small Wars, No Small Debate via SWJ Blog.

[Tom Odom]

Caution, yes. Dread, no.

The issue of exploiting, approaching, interacting with, and understanding how the particular mosque in the particular city, and inside the particular sect of Islam is complex. I would use the word enlightened with intensive study.

Regardless of whether it is "activist" or not, the church/mosque/temple etc has a voice of authority in communities among a large portion of it.

No it does not. That is a cookie cutter. Even taking Islam alone, mosques in one country playa different role than they do in another. Although there is change underway in Turkey, authority as I believe you are using the word does not apply. In Egypt it is more complex and depends on the mosque itself and the neighborhood, village, or region.

did we leave exploitable human terrain because of that fear? and, how many of our men and women paid the price for that? (Not to be confrontational, but you see where I am coming from; this isn't all academic, philosophical sociology here; it has a direct impact).

Not to be confrontational, as a FAO with a good bit of on the ground experience in Lebanon, Turkey, Egypt, Sudan I don't believe that I am speaking with a purely academic background although I have a Masters in Mid East Area Studies. I am speaking from much practical experience as an operator and as an operator who has translated what "exploitable human terrain" means in terms doable.

Best

Tom

[Chiropetra]

I believe it is important to keep the various roles of the mosque separate, in part because there are some roles, such as the purely religious, where we don't really want to engage and there are others, such the social and economic where it's important in COIN to engage them.

As Tom pointed out there is no such thing as a cookie cutter mosque. However you can say broadly that every mosque has a social and economic component -- with the amount of influence in the community varying widely.

We need to understand what we are engaging, but we need to engage with most mosques in COIN areas.

A lot of COIN operations go against a warfighter's grain. But that doesn't make them any less important.

[skiguy]

I believe it is important to keep the various roles of the mosque separate, in part because there are some roles, such as the purely religious, where we don't really want to engage

Why not? You can't nor would you want to change the way they worship God, but it would be a good idea to understand their religion and what they believe. Not everyone is interested in religion, so not everyone should be involved. Religion is just one of the many aspects of COIN, maybe just a small part or perhaps it's a big part that's being ignored too much - I haven't figured that out yet...experience needed. But, IMO, engaging in more inter-faith dialogue is a good idea.

[Tom OC]

One would think that a mosque, just like any organization, would have rules and regulations that constrain or control ideological behavior. It seems encouraging self-control is our best bet, or perhaps there is some kind of mosque council or association which "accredits" individual mosques. One of the things that always bothered me was the looseness by which practically anybody could step up and become a "worship leader." A shame that so much relies on small group peer pressure.

[Tom OC]

OK, a naive comment on my last post. I have zero experience in engaging a mosque. There probably is no accreditation authority, but maybe there's some way to put pressure on them from above. I dunno. However, I do find the cultural sensitivity issue interesting, or perhaps the "taboos in the mosque" issue fascinating. In hopes of redeeming myself, let me quote Shusta et. al. (2005). Multicultural Law Enforcement, 3e. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall -- p. 232 "Officer safety, of course, comes before consideration of differences."

[SWJED]

OK, a naive comment on my last post. I have zero experience in engaging a mosque. There probably is no accreditation authority, but maybe there's some way to put pressure on them from above. I dunno. However, I do find the cultural sensitivity issue interesting, or perhaps the "taboos in the mosque" issue fascinating. In hopes of redeeming myself, let me quote Shusta et. al. (2005). Multicultural Law Enforcement, 3e. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall -- p. 232 "Officer safety, of course, comes before consideration of differences."

I guess many of us are naive about this issue - hopefully a discussion here will, at the very least, turn on some lightbulbs in our brain-housing-groups...

[Tom Odom]

I guess many of us are naive about this issue - hopefully a discussion here will, at the very least, turn on some lightbulbs in our brain-housing-groups...

In this matter I strongly recommend that best approaches are through host nation government, local, and military figures rather than direct, regardless of relative depth in Islam and local culture. I would also say that this is not something that we turn to the Chaplains--who do great work regardless of faith--as they will be judged by their uniforms and their faiths. Indeed this is a subject of great debate within Chaplain circles as a possible conflict with their mission of religious support. The last thing I would ever recommend to a commander is to send military envoys/patrols into the mosques as an entree for engagement. I have been in mosques in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Turkey. All were famous and the mosques were used to seeing non-Muslim visitors. We were, however, always escorted.

Back to the indirect approach, the best way if you seek to engage the mosque leaders is to draw them into discussions outside the mosques and again that means with local contacts, tribal, government, security, etc.

Best

Tom