On PBS: The War

[Tom Odom]

In case you missed it--I stumbled across it and caught two episodes and want to catch more--PBS has been showing The War a documentary by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick.

It is on this month and next in these 7 episodes:
EPISODE ONE: “A Necessary War”
EPISODE TWO: “When Things Get Tough”
EPISODE THREE: “A Deadly Calling”
EPISODE FOUR: “Pride of Our Nation”
EPISODE FIVE: “FUBAR”
EPISODE SIX: “The Ghost Front”
EPISODE SEVEN: “A World Without War”

You can download a very well done veiwer's guide here


Based on what I saw in the two sessions (2 hours plus for each) this is truly a world class film series. The historical film used is stunning--most of it entirely new to me and I have seen a lot of documentaries on WWII.

You also buy the series from PBS.

The below was a download wallpaper offered free that I resized.

best

Tom

[Stan]

In case you missed it--I stumbled across it and caught two episodes and want to catch more--PBS has been showing The War a documentary by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick.

It is on this month and next in these 7 episodes:
EPISODE ONE: “A Necessary War”
EPISODE TWO: “When Things Get Tough”
EPISODE THREE: “A Deadly Calling”
EPISODE FOUR: “Pride of Our Nation”
EPISODE FIVE: “FUBAR”
EPISODE SIX: “The Ghost Front”
EPISODE SEVEN: “A World Without War”

You can download a very well done veiwer's guide here


Based on what I saw in the two sessions (2 hours plus for each) this is truly a world class film series. The historical film used is stunning--most of it entirely new to me and I have seen a lot of documentaries on WWII.

You also buy the series from PBS.

The below was a download wallpaper offered free that I resized.

best

Tom

Evening, Tom !
Great Post ! I look forward to checking it out.

Can't make out the rifle clearly. May have something to do with the last 7 beers, but I doubt it !

Regards, Stan

[Tom Odom]

Hey bud

That would be an M1; the pic was taken at Saipan.

Only 7? Oh, the last 7...

The 2 I wtached were excellent. I never saw a Hellcat fighter have its engine melt on deck as it landed --even as the engine kept turning over. Lot's new color film and excellent interviews.

Best

Tom

[goesh]

It's an excellant series - ground, air, Europe, the S. Pacific and the home front, all well done. they sure had different ROE back then, that's for sure.

The episode I just saw told about the all-Japanese unit in Europe - the 442 Bn if memory serves me right, and gave them just due for their action, which was good to see. What I found hilarious was the segment on the Crow Indian guy from Montana who actually stold some horses from the Germans - he fashioned a hackamore bridle from some rope, jumped on his mount and stampeded the rest - this guy carried an eagle feather in his helment and told the interviewer that he always painted some red stripes on his arm under his uniform prior to going out on patrol, recon, etc. - some things never change it seems.

[Beelzebubalicious]

Ken Burns was on the Daily Show recently. Sept. 27, I think. Pretty good interview. He comes across as a smart, passionate guy. Spent 6 years on this, digging through archives and interviewing vets. Haven't seen it, but will try to do so now.

[Tom Odom]

What I found hilarious was the segment on the Crow Indian guy from Montana who actually stold some horses from the Germans - he fashioned a hackamore bridle from some rope, jumped on his mount and stampeded the rest - this guy carried an eagle feather in his helment and told the interviewer that he always painted some red stripes on his arm under his uniform prior to going out on patrol, recon, etc. - some things never change it seems.

I watched that one too and you came to mind, mate

I figured you would get a kick out of that one.

Much honesty in the series interviews, some of it brutal. The 442d and the 100th were tied at the hip by the time they were in southern France. Simply amazing units.

Best

Tom

[Adam L]

Ken Burns was on the Daily Show recently. Sept. 27, I think. Pretty good interview. He comes across as a smart, passionate guy. Spent 6 years on this, digging through archives and interviewing vets. Haven't seen it, but will try to do so now.

Here is my reaction to the interview on the Daily Show (and The War)

1. He is arrogant, and it is not justified.
2. He acted as if his documentary was the first to show the personal horrors of war. Not all but many documentaries have covered this aspect but along with the technical side of the war. Showing one without the other is manipulative. Also, as he has even said in some of his interviews is an "artist." Where an artist differs form a historian (the people who have made or at least greatly influenced the production most documentaries on WWII) is that an artist "reflects" an issue or event. This means it is slightly distorted and from a perceived view. When a good historian or academic attempts to show history it is more of a photograph. All attempts are made to avoid distortion (which is inevitable.) Again, many historians do distort things, but there have been some who have done a fine job.
3. It was more of a collage than a documentary.
4. I find his choice of towns odd. (music too!) First, you need atleast one big city otherwise you are missing a large portion of America. Then for the best cross section you would need a fishing town, a mining town and an agricultural town.
5. How did this take him seven years? With seven years he could have covered a lot more and done a better job. With seven years it should be a masterpiece.
6. He is not the first guy to bring out the color archives. The History Channel did it back a little before 2000 if I remember correctly. Also, I very much disagree with his opinion that somehow the color film gives it greater impact. Personally I find that it gives it less. Early color photography looks, in all honesty, almost fake due to the color distortion. Black and white film at the time was far more advanced, and cinematically is more devastating and dramatic (this is why they filmed "The Longest Day" in black and white.) Regardless of this, something is seriously wrong if people don't get a reaction out of black and white film.
7. When somebody tries to emotionally manipulate you (well, actually me) it tends to back fire. I find it some how offensive when people find it necessary to dramatize something that is already over dramatic in reality. If people are so incapable of having an emotion without being told what it is something is terribly wrong (We wonder why this nations young are so out of it?) This is why I didn't like Saving Private Ryan (also, the poor script) and Schindler's List. Both movies beat people over the head with a message and a point. They both made propaganda films look settle. Also, Spielberg needs to stay away from film noire. Normandy in the rain and Auschwitz (of course) are dark enough you don't need to magnify it.
8. I guess the point I am making is that Ken Burns mad more of a "film" (as Tom called it) than a good documentary. I really feel it just doesn't rank up there with the good stuff.
9. Also, why does he feel vets didn't talk about the bad side of the war and the incompetence until Brokaw wrote his book? I have seen a lot of documentaries predating that and they certainly dealt with both of those issues.
10. I have to comment that I have never heard any, and I mean any, vet or reasonable person call WWII a "good war" in the sense he implied. They meant just if anything. Unfortunately we can't use "righteous" as Churchill and Roosevelt would have said due to people confusing this word with "self-righteousness" and imperialism.
11. To spend seven years on this and represent only the U.S. population (a myopic portion at that) is inexcusable.
13. He portrays pre-war America in a very rosy picture. The economy was bad, unemployment was high and the government was almost bankrupt. People in those four towns may not have felt it, but a lot of America was very depressed.
12. I'm sure I will think of more complaints, but I'll have to save them for my next post.

Sorry, if I offended anyone with my harsh criticism. I have very high standards for stuff like this in great part because I hate to see so much time and research on something so important turn into a mediocre project. Also, I know I am going to piss off a lot of people with my comments about Saving Private Ryan and Schindlers List, but as I said I am a harsh critic and I often object to things for less common reasons so please don't judge me on this.

Adam

P.S. Try to see the Daily Show interview (if you haven't.) You might see what I am getting at. I find this guy to be almost everything I dislike about the rise of psuedo-intellectuals [I talked about this on my extra-long (2 part) post in the Officer Retention thread.] I also guess I find it insulting that he assumes (although he's probably right these days with the educational sytem) that everyone is as ignorant as he was when it comes to the realities of war. Sorry about the soapbox .