Human Terrain & Anthropology (merged thread)

[Steve Blair]

I'd have to agree with Rex and Selil - most of my students are quite interested in learning and, in many cases, quite mad that they were not challenged in High School.

I'll have to join the chorus here. Many (but not all) of the students I come into contact with (either as an instructor or informal adviser) are looking for some sort of intellectual challenge. Some of them get quite frustrated when they start finding "more of the same" in college.

[Penta]

I'll have to join the chorus here. Many (but not all) of the students I come into contact with (either as an instructor or informal adviser) are looking for some sort of intellectual challenge. Some of them get quite frustrated when they start finding "more of the same" in college.

(I apologize in advance if this sounds like a rant.)
As one of those recent students....Yes, yes, yes.

For me, the only reason I suffered through high school (where I was bored and depressed) was to get to college. I had mental health issues at the time, too, so I was desperate to get away (even from the alt school I was placed in in 11th grade).

I get to college, figuring "I have just 4 years left"...And find out there that, for a political science major (and most liberal arts majors, really), to really have a chance to get a job where you might do relevant things with your education, you need...a grad degree. (ROTC is another route, yes; but given my disabilities, not an option for me.)

I was, still am to an extent, pissed at that. I was lucky - the school I picked (University of Scranton, for those who care) was a decent school, if a horrible choice for someone like me who was stuck on campus and not a social butterfly. I had a few profs (my advisor especially) who wouldn't let me fail out (as I pondered on many an occasion) and could occasionally throw me things to chew on.

But overall, college was a fair number of required courses I could have done without (Political philosophy, I'm looking at you...Dept required course that gave me fits...), with only some that were unexpectedly useful (The required theology sequence (UofS being a Jesuit school)), the rest being obvious requirements or whatever.

Issues I see in education?

1) College costs a lot of money. As I have friends and family at college age, or their last years of HS, I'm seeing this in a way I admit I didn't when it was my turn. I'd be surprised if I saw a four-year school with tuition UNDER 22k per year - before adding on room, board, books, fees, etc, etc. I don't know anybody going through college, or about to go through college, who does not work or is not planning to work just to make the money work. Only reason I didn't is because parents had the ability to cover me (I'm the youngest of two; the equation is different if you're, say, the eldest of three or something), helpful given that it was hard enough to pull off 15 credits (18 being a "normal" courseload at my school) without working. Scholarships and (non-loan) aid are not available for a lot of them (too poor to pay out of pocket, too rich to qualify for need-based aid); If they're spending the time they aren't in class, sleeping, or trying to study for classes that seem to see monster papers as somehow indicating rigor (Uh, no. Minimum 10 pages does not equal rigor, not if I'm a good enough writer to say what I have to say in 6!), to enable college to BE a time of intellectual exploration. It's basically a lot like HS in terms of being "on the hamster wheel"; difference is, you're away from home, and you pay for the privilege of being a hamster.

2) There's a glut of people with undergrad degrees vs jobs that will take only undergrad degrees. Maybe it's a cyclical thing, but right now, it's hard to actually get a job within a few months of leaving school. (Hence why many of the people I graduated HS with are in law school or grad school if they can pull it off) And forget a job that actually uses the degree you put six figures towards getting.

2A) College has a problem. Undergrad programs, funding, etc. are designed for 4 years. Personally, while I admit to making mistakes aplenty (in some ways, I wonder if I was ready for college, with my disabilities, when I started; I hate to admit that, but it comes to mind), it took me 5 and a half years, including a semester break for a vocational rehab program. 5-6 years seems to be becoming more common - yet there's still a black mark, it feels like, if you don't get that degree in 4 years. Is it just where I live (The Shore area of NJ; Monmouth-Ocean Counties to be more precise), or have others felt that? (Folks who hire people? Any view from that end?)

In short: Everybody says college is supposed to prepare you for a career. Or at least, that's what's pitched to students (current and prospective).

Meanwhile, I'm left with the feeling that, no, it's really just meant to weed people out of going to grad school, where one is really prepared for a career...And if you don't make the jump to grad school, you just wasted time and money, and in many cases are left with crushing debtloads.

...Yes, this did turn into a rant. Not what I intended. Hopefully, though, amid my rantings, some can see something of use.

[Ken White]

My daughter would totally agree, particularly with the emphasis on an advance degree and taking more than four years to complete. We have really skewed the system a bit too much...

[Penta]

A bit? A bit?

*falls off chair with laughter*

Let me show my hand: I screwed up a few semesters, came out of college with a 2.3 GPA. Not because I was lazy, but because I...Well, I gave up. I began wondering where the hell the payoff would be, all the doors that were supposed to open for me once I'd gotten to college.

I wonder whether to laugh bitterly or just cry when friends from my younger days say that "last I knew, you actually were the smartest one around", and mean it. (I'm the classic "bright kid who burned out in college", I suppose.) Because I don't see the evidence. So, yeah, I saw someone bring up the issue of education, and I pounced. Because I suppose I feel a little screwed.

Is grad school in my future? I hope so, but I'm not optimistic (unless someone here has an in with an MA program in security studies/int'l relations or similar). Painful to realize, especially when, on an intellectual level, I'd begun "priming myself" for (I hoped) a career in government (hey, I'm disabled - job security is important, and the intel community ain't gonna be outsourced to China or India!) when I was in my early teens and had given up the idea of doing anything that required eyesight, the ability to drive, or much in the way of physical ability.

So, unless and until I get a grad degree, I could have my major in something completely random, and it'd be the same thing.

I doubt, I really doubt, that I'm the only one who can say that among my peers - there are opportunities, yes. But we were promised that once we got into college, we were at least going to have a vaguely decent job.

That promise...Ain't happened. I'm happy to have the job I have, but I imagined that by this point I'd be starting my career, not just in a job I took because my career seems to be slammed shut to me. And I don't have student loans or the like to worry about. I have no credit history, but no debt, either.

I'm going to sound bitter here, but...I don't care about your political views. Every side of the spectrum is at fault.

Those 30 and older made a lot of promises to my generation, able-bodied or not, many to keep us from giving up totally over the years.

Promises come due, and imagine the surprise when we come to find that the ladder's been yanked up, the door shut, and the sound we just heard was the lock clanking closed. (When the average tab for college is $20k+ per year for tuition alone, increasing at twice the rate of inflation, with textbook prices (to name a small part) going up by three-digit percentages over the past ten years, I fear to think what the situation is for those, say, 5-8 years younger than me.)

Either doors open soon on a large scale, or the verdict is going to be that we all got screwed, and have no realistic chance of actually having a decent life.

[selil]

This video talks about some of the problems with the education system (CLICK HERE). Take the time about fifteen minutes to watch it and it might change your mind about education.

[Schmedlap]

I have to agree with all of the points made about college. A few more gripes, just because...

I'm enrolled in an MBA program. I took one semester of courses prior to my latest deployment to Iraq. To be blunt, it was an obscene waste of my time and money and my grades reflect not what knowledge I obtained, but rather the quality of homework that I turned in.

Although I was in school, I still remembered that I was a military professional FIRST and a college student SECOND. When I am given a homework assignment that has 20 problems that take about 30 minutes each to complete, that all utilize the same concept, applied over and over, and I am in a time crunch where work competes with school, then work is going to win and I am going to blow off doing the next 15 repetitive problems to a high standard. This is not a complaint about getting a B instead of an A, but just an observation that, to me, shows that something is wrong. In this particular course, I aced each of the 3 tests. I mean that I literally attained a score of 100 on each test, to include the final exam (it was a statistics course and I'm an analytical guy). However, due to my aforementioned decision to focus on work when the homework proved mindlessly repetitive and a detriment to my professional duties, my homework grade dragged down my overall grade to the point that while I was the only person to even get a 90 or higher on each test, let alone 100, I got a solid B. What does that grade reflect? I say it reflects my priorities. If I were applying to a PhD program or something else that cares about grades - which thankfully I am not - then I suspect that the grade would be interpreted as an inadequate mastery of the material or a deficient intellect.

Another course - the title escapes me now - was basically a course in "dealing with people 101". It was such a simple, basic, dumbed-down, intellectually insulting waste of my time that I considered dropping out of the program altogether. I requested that I get credit for it based on "life experience" but commanding an infantry company in urban combat did not pass the muster. The professor did nothing but preach to us for 2 hours a week, not only failing to encourage questions, but actively repelling them and discouraging any discussion whatsoever. Basically, we took notes on material that we were never tested on, wrote a research paper on a narrow human resources topic, and then got a grade that seemed to be randomly generated (I got an A, though I am not sure why).

The most maddening experience was a case study that we did in groups that reminded me of the MDMP drills that we do in IOBC and ICCC. Just a finger-drilled procedure that we will never use again, that does little to generate or justify a decision, and is basically just a briefing format that is contrived to fit the course of action that is determined ahead of time.

I have actually been considering a transition to an anthropology and/or international affairs program. My only reservation is that I suspect that I will lack the patience to write research papers on simplistic topics with set page restrictions (I took one course in which the maximum was 10 pages - my draft was easily over 50) that are skimmed over by a disinterested graduate assistant who sharpshoots my citations and ignores the content.

The most disappointing aspect of my cynical view of graduate school in general, and business school in particular, thus far, is that I now have enough money to easily go to school without working and still maintain my standard of living, but it seems less interesting. I worked through undergraduate school, lived on ramen noodles, had no social life, and graduated flat broke. I always thought about how nice it would be to go to school simply for the intellectual pleasure or to learn something useful, rather than to just get a degree. Now I've reached the point where I can do just that, but I have also reached the conclusion that I was aspiring for an experience that business school does not offer. Everybody here seems to be focused on getting a degree and not at all interested in learning anything. Almost every question that is asked begins with "if this were asked on the test..." or "will this be on the test?" or "how would you ask this on a test?" It is disappointing.

I would love to find an intellectually stimulating program where I learn something interesting and useful - regardless of obtaining a degree - but it seems like schools have fashioned themselves into factories that churn out degree holders.

[Norfolk]

I can't remember now who wrote it, or on which thread they posted it, but someone here at SWC a few weeks ago said that the best way to learn was to get a bunch of good books and just read them yourself. While there are some real limitations to that way of learning, it is still one of the best, and one of the few that anyone can do on their own initiative and without having to attend classes of some sort or formal schooling and the like.

Without adding the experiences of my own academic career to the Parade of Higher Education Horrors already recounted, I simply have to say that I largely concurr. The gross over-expansion of Higher Education over the last generation or so in response to the "demand" for degrees in order to pursue careers has led to institutionalized mediocrity throughout much of that system. The pressure to recruit, "educate", and accredit more students, create new programs/departments/faculties, etc., and to increase the prestige and "reputation" (amongst other things) of colleges, universities, faculties, and individual faculty members, has resulted in a general lowering of academic standards and integrity throughout. Much of the function of colleges and univerisities has been reduced to that of degree mills, instead of as places of learning. There is a disturbing consistency to such observations across North American institutions of higher learning such that it forms a discernable pattern; it is long past being just a trend.

When Higher Education is turning out far more people with degrees than can ever hope to gain employment "commensurate" with the "educations" that they have supposedly received, a growing loss of confidence in the worth of higher education is a long-term consequence. When people think of (as they have been raised to believe - and as employers demand) a university education as a path to a career, then when the "supply" of such "educated" carreer-aspirants far exceeds what the workforce seeks, people feel cheated - and all the more so when they have played by the rules that were laid out for them with the "promise" of a career at the end. This is potentially lethal consequence Number 1.

Now, when the "education" that many of these people receive is in many cases little more than a contrivance in order to create more programs for more degrees for more "careers", never mind those that are simply ideological tripe passing for learning, those students who really are looking for an intellectual challenge are quite likely to feel disappointed - or worse. Even more so than the "career-aspirants", these people who have a genuine love of learning may find themselves either stulted or simply turned-off by the often rote, unimaginative, and just plain lame curriculae they may find themselves presented with. Few things turn-off bright and keen students than a professor or curriculum that is just going through the motions. When such sharp, eager young minds encounter this - and remember, they are often still quite idealistic at this stage - , it is all too easy for them to conclude that Higher Education has been dumbed-down. The result is frequently that they settle for doing just the minimum to get decent marks, their degree, and then get out and never look back, except for having a poor opinion of Higher Education. Potentially lethal consequence No. 2.

Take these 2 Potentially Lethal Consequences, and you have a simple, and increasingly widespread lack of confidence in Higher Education. When the same people are faced with making great financial sacrifices in order to send their own children to college or university, and when considering that they themselves may have insufficiently benefitted by it, parents increasingly may find themselves simply unwilling to do so, even if they are financially able. A general loss of confidence in the usefulness (never mind worthiness) of higher education by the public at large may develop into a real problem in the future.

If it does, then someone a couple generations down the road may find themselves in the same shoes as Senator Cassiodorus in the early 6th Century, when, having founded a monastery far from the ruined and depopulated cities of Barbarian-occupied Italy, he found himself having to write a book of basic grammar for his monks to help him teach them how to read and write, since literacy had nearly evaporated in the years preceding the collapse of the Western Empire. Furthermore, Cassiodorus assembled a basic educational curriculum of seven subjects that he intended to serve as a basis for which to keep the flame of learning lit until such time as civilization could be restored. Of course, thus it was from Cassiodorus himself that we directly received the Seven Liberal Arts, from which our own system of education ultimately derives.

The day may be not too far off that it may be a very good idea to build one's own library stocked with the materials necessary for a solid basic level of education - at home.

[Penta]

Wonderful theorizing, Norfolk...

But unfortunately it doesn't really help matters now. Which is important because, to put it plainly, if you thought the home mortgage crisis sucks, think about what the student loan crisis will be like, especially when you consider that student loans are one of very few types of debt that cannot be discharged through bankruptcy.

All hail the creation of the new American underclass, that tried to join the middle class like their parents...and found that the ladder had been pulled up behind the old folks.

[Rex Brynen]

I'm sure that there are a great many mediocre educational experiences, and a great many students who feel that they didn't get what they wanted out of their education. However, Norfolk, in general I just don't agree.

I think, in general, we do a better job now of teaching undergraduates than we did 25 years ago when I was studying for my BA. As I've said before, the students I see are bright, motivated, frequently bi- or trilingual, plugged in, and generally kick ass (in an academic sense, of course). They've also got access to information that was beyond our wildest dreams in the pre-web days.

[Norfolk]

I'm sure that there are a great many mediocre educational experiences, and a great many students who feel that they didn't get what they wanted out of their education. However, Norfolk, in general I just don't agree.

I think, in general, we do a better job now of teaching undergraduates than we did 25 years ago when I was studying for my BA. As I've said before, the students I see are bright, motivated, frequently bi- or trilingual, plugged in (in an academic sense, of course). They've also got access to information that was beyond our wildest dreams in the pre-web days.

You see, feel, and experience far more in Higher Education than I ever have Rex, and mine is only one person's view. You may well be correct, and you are certainly in a better position to judge that than I. But from my own observations and from what my friends and I experienced at university, this is what things seemed to boil down to, more or less, and I can't seem to help but perceive that that's how things have become. As I said though, this may well be a mistaken conclusion.

But I have seen more than enough of people in Penta's predicament to really wonder just what is indeed occurring vis-a-vis higher education and the workforce. It is increasingly unsettling to my mind.

[SteveMetz]

You see, feel, and experience far more in Higher Education than I ever have Rex, and mine is only one person's view. You may well be correct, and you are certainly in a better position to judge that than I. But from my own observations and from what my friends and I experienced at university, this is what things seemed to boil down to, more or less, and I can't seem to help but perceive that that's how things have become. As I said though, this may well be a mistaken conclusion.

But I have seen more than enough of people in Penta's predicament to really wonder just what is indeed occurring vis-a-vis higher education and the workforce. It is increasingly unsettling to my mind.

Having a kid who is a college sophmore and one who is in the application profess right now, I've taken 17 college visits over the past 24 months, I too feel that vast improvements have been made in undergraduate education. To give on example, I'm sure I was a very low priority for my undergraduate adviser following his research, teaching graduate students, and teaching undergraduates. At my daughter's university, they had full time advisers.

To be frank, I wanted to slap Penta and scream, "No one promised you anything but an opportunity. Just get over the whiny sense of entitlement."

If the sole reason for pursuing higher education is employability, a kid should go to a tech school. This reminds me of a story I read in the Chronicle of Higher Education a few years ago. It interviewed a number of people who had gone through Duke's new Ph.D. program in--and I'm not making this up--Queer Studies. Then they were complaining because after all the work they'd put in, for some strange reason they couldn't find jobs. Moral of the story: adults accept responsibility for their own decisions including bad ones.

Dang, when did I become my grandfather?

[skiguy]

Well, Steve, I AM a grandfather, so here's my take.

I doubt, I really doubt, that I'm the only one who can say that among my peers - there are opportunities, yes. But we were promised that once we got into college, we were at least going to have a vaguely decent job.

Who promised you this?

I'm an old guy going for his UG degree, no one promised me anything. Yes, ultimately I hope to get employment in something that is at least closely related to my field of study, but there may be some problems (security clearance issues). I'm not going to let that hold me back. If it causes a problem, then I'll do something else, like not get a graduate degree in intelligence, or find some other alternative.

Penta, you should be getting an education because you have the desire to learn, not because you want to get a job. Math sucks. I hate it. It's boring and depressing, but it's a required course. I'll work just as hard to get an A in that class as I would in any other class I take.

JMO

[selil]

I tell my students I am there to offer them the opportunity to become educated. I also tell them often that I don't do training I'm there to educate them. What's the difference? In a nutshell do you want your daughter receiving sex training or sex education? I have long discussions with my students about the fact that I may give them the opportunity to become educated I am also the gate keeper on the discipline and like some fat sphinx they must answer my questions to pass.

This year I'm on a "half" sabbatical while I finish my PhD course work. I'm teaching half my normal load and all of that distance learning. The students are despondent as I'm not there for normal office hours and usually I have a line. The students think they are coming there to get a piece of paper to get a job. I disabuse them of that trite thought rapidly. I've whacked on my Dean and Vice Chancellors when they say things like we're training the future work force. I'm not popular at dinner parties. I know that my discipline is going to be out of date before they graduate. I have to educate my students to think. I am teaching my students to get the job that hasn't even been created yet.

I have ran across interesting phenomenon with my students. Companies work hard to recruit my students, the name of the University, the discipline, the history of the program, but the success of past graduates is the real reason they're sought after. The companies talk about being positive, and great places to work. If the companies lied my students quit. BS my students and they'll walk and find other employment. Employers who tell students it's hard work, long hours, and we pay you well get dreadnoughts on task. It could be the same person. It's kind of fun to get the baby-boomer calling complaining that my students don't trust anybody over 30, and are more interested in sex than say assembly language programming... Uh.. DUH!

[Norfolk]

To be frank, I wanted to [] scream, "No one promised you anything but an opportunity. Just get over the whiny sense of entitlement."

If the sole reason for pursuing higher education is employability, a kid should go to a tech school. This reminds me of a story I read in the Chronicle of Higher Education a few years ago. It interviewed a number of people who had gone through Duke's new Ph.D. program in--and I'm not making this up--Queer Studies. Then they were complaining because after all the work they'd put in, for some strange reason they couldn't find jobs. Moral of the story: adults accept responsibility for their own decisions including bad ones.

Dang, when did I become my grandfather?

Excellent post Steve. There is simply too much taken for granted, and (most of) the younger generation has never really had to face harsh adversity. Two full generations, and a third underway, have mostly grown up without having to overcome the real, grinding hardships, rejection, and consequences of failure that even our grandparents had to. Even for them, in some cases it was still do-or-die.

My maternal grandparents survived the Great Depression living in a log shack in the forest (literally), my grandfather taking jobs as they came available until WWII and he joined the Air Force. My paternal grandfather likewise worked odd jobs until WWII, joined the Army, and survived (barely) a German POW camp in Bavaria- and was ever grateful to the US Army for liberating him. When the GIs, shocked by the condition they found him and the other POWs in, asked how they survived, my grandfather told them about the horse's head a farmer gave them to put in their soup. That's how they survived. It ain't like that now, not for a long time. People take much too much for granted now, and are encouraged wherever they turn in such expectations.

skiguy and selil make excellent points too, and about the real purpose of Higher Education, namely, to educate, not train/indoctrinate/prepare-for-a-career, etc., but to learn, and to learn how to learn. It is not enough to say that this is to encourage creativity and to develop critical thinking; it is rather that the purpose of higher education is to develop proper judgement, and this is not only universally applicable, but universally necessary. No number of "school-trained" businessmen gathered around the executive conference table can make the proper decision about economic trends and where to make investments if all they have are school solutions - the recurring losses of huge corporations over and over, often in the stupidest ways, are blunt testimony to the dearth of good judgement in the corporate/financial worlds.

The expectation that colleges and universities exist to prepare people for jobs and careers is a false one, and it is an abuse of the purpose of higher education. Unfortunately, it is encouraged by institutions of higher education themselves, and parents and their children can hardly turn on the TV or open a newspaper without being exhorted to go to university so they can get a job or a career. When far too many people are going to university with these manufactured expectations in mind, and uncomfortably many are coming out and never even approaching their expectations in job or career, a problem is brewing, and not just a small one. It is going to grow over time, and if it isn't dealt with properly, it may become a societal one in due time.

I would have to add the qualification though that here in Canada, there is quite an overabundance of people with degrees and a quite a dearth of employment opportunities for them; I suspect that in the U.S. the situation is perhaps a little more encouraging - in Canada it is certainly developing into a problem - I believe marc mentioned something along these lines on this or another thread some time ago.

[marct]

Hi Norfolk,

The expectation that colleges and universities exist to prepare people for jobs and careers is a false one, and it is an abuse of the purpose of higher education. Unfortunately, it is encouraged by institutions of higher education themselves, and parents and their children can hardly turn on the TV or open a newspaper without being exhorted to go to university so they can get a job or a career.

Good point, but it is tricky, especially in Canada. There are three, inter-twining expectations running here:

1. A university education is job / career preparation;
2. A university degree will get you a job; and
3. A university degree is the minimum qualification for a job.

On the first, I agree - a university degree should not be viewed as preparation for either a job or a career. BTW, I think it is important to point out a couple of things in this area. First, "job" is moving back to it's pre-1840 meaning of a "morsel" or "piece" of work (from the Irish Gaelic Gob, beakfull or bite), and "career, in its 1840+ meaning is disappearing (it comes from the French and means the systematic holding of offices within an organization - that died in the 1970's). Second, the "average" number of careers is running at about 8 per working lifetime in North America right now.

Expectation #2 is just not supported by the data, while expectation #3, which is a root assumption of much of the recent (say past 10 years) HRIS systems is quite valid (I did a conference paper on this back in 1999 available here).

I would have to add the qualification though that here in Canada, there is quite an overabundance of people with degrees and a quite a dearth of employment opportunities for them; I suspect that in the U.S. the situation is perhaps a little more encouraging - in Canada it is certainly developing into a problem - I believe marc mentioned something along these lines on this or another thread some time ago.

Actually, I would say that t already is a problem and has been for the past decade or so. Put bluntly, the "value" of a degree has been watered down so badly that a 4 year BA is worth less than what a 1960's high school degree used to be worth. The last data I saw on school to work transitions in Canada, from 2005, showed that under 10% of people with only a BA were actually working in the field they trained for.

I suspect that this over credentialization is partially responsible for the increasing emphasis on job training vs. education. I know that in Ontario, the government created a rather large pot of funds that were split amongst the universities who placed the highest number of their graduates in jobs, while the lower placing universities got nada from it.

[Rex Brynen]

The last data I saw on school to work transitions in Canada, from 2005, showed that under 10% of people with only a BA were actually working in the field they trained for.

I'm not sure what this means in the social sciences and liberal arts, however--we're not teaching people to become, say, political scientists or anthropologists, but rather to develop research skills, think analytically, write well, and hone their mental agility so that they can fulfill a variety of roles in the private and public sectors. (This quite in addition to the intrinsic personal value in higher education.)

This is why most universities (my own included) have moved in the last decade to lessen the degree of required specialization, emphasize minor as well as major programmes, etc.

[Norfolk]

Hi Marc,

Could not agree more.

Incidently, the situation that has developed in Canada, and I rather suspect is developing in the U.S., brings to mind some of the things that have occurred in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, et al. One of our other threads has been describing and discussing at some length how there is a significant body of middle-class people in their 20's and 30's who have university educations (particularly in engineering as well as computer science, medicine, etc.), many of whom cannot find worthwhile job opportunities in their home societies, and have formed an underclass of sorts that now serves as a recruitment pool for extremist groups and terrorist organizations.

Before I go too far in creating an impression that such is the future for North America with a growing population of disaffected university graduates, I would say that other conditions that strongly contribute to the development of extremist groups and terrorists organizations have not reached, for the most part, a critical level. This is not to deny that North America is not host to more terrorists organizations than anywhere else; but it is to make a distinction between the nature of most of their activities here (recruitment, fundraising, political lobbying, planning, etc.), and actual operations overseas.

But I am proposing that a growing "underclass" of university graduates with unreasonable expectations (admittedly raised and encouraged in those expectations by society as a whole and higher education itself in particular - not to single out higher education for disproportionate blame) encountering harsh reality and giving in to disillusionment and disaffection is a potential base in the future for real trouble. In the not-so-distant future we may be faced with our own home-grown malcontents and extremists, particularly if conditions in the future are considerably changed from now - serious economic downturn, social fragmentation, identity politics, the personal and social effects of isolation, etc.

Hi Rex,

I quite agree. The universities must somehow accomplish two things at the same time: 1. offer an education to students that is above all else about developing their learning, their thought, and their judgement - specific, "technical" skills and knowledge being secondary and complementary to that; and 2., pry open and escape from the deadly hold of the popular expections of universities as existing principally for job and career preparation, and that said "should" lead to employment more or less commensurate with the level of "preparation" received.

This is certainly not to say that universities should not fully educate, for example, biology students in the scientific aspects of their discipline, or English students in their craft; but it is to say that in all cases, the development of the student's mind and judgement is the paramount consideration of higher education; former business students without developed critical thinking, learning skills, and good judgement may be disasters waiting to happen when placed in charge of large resources, or students of history who have been indoctrinated in the fashionable theories or views of the day, but could not turn around someday and teach their own students any better about the history of their country or the consequences of certain events other than to offer some half-baked nonsense that leaves their charges in more or less ignorance. (Please do not deduct marks for my dreadfull run-on sentence here.)

marc: thanks for the link - I rather enjoyed your piece, and I've saved it on my hard-drive.

[SteveMetz]

I think you've touched on a key security issues that is seldom analyzed in any rigorous way: how does a society channel off and control the aggression of young males? This sounds glib but I'm serious--things like sports and video games help. The problem in much of the Islamic world (and I realize this a gross generalization which many people won't like) is that the only outlets are making babies and venting through extremism. I really think we'd to more to augment our security if exported X Boxes as enthusiastically as we exported democracy. I'm afraid our senior leaders have forgotten what it's like to be 19 and pissed off.

[SWJED]

... 19 and pissed off.

... and with few constructive options.

[SteveMetz]

... and with few constructive options.

Thing is--and this is a point I tried to make in my Rethinking Insurgency monograph--they have to be constructive options that appeal to a 19 year old. The Bush strategy of allowing people to vote every few years and creating some menial jobs ain't gonna cut the mustard (to put it in technical terms).