The Ottomans et al.....

[UrsaMaior]

May I ask what aspect of the calpihates are you refering to? Geographic, cultural, military or other?

Coming from a country which was occupied for only (?) 145 yrs by the ottoman turks (compared to say 500 yrs of Serbia) we probably have a different kind of perception about an ottoman caliphate (along with many other ethnicities who lived under their rule) than other, luckier nations, who have not experienced it.

[Tom Odom]

I think we need to get on board and support the idea of reestablishing the "caliphate." But we need to tell the militants that it will not be the Abbasid one, but the more historically terminous one: the Ottoman caliphate. Then let them chew on that.

Yep, that will werk!

Ursa,

I do believe that Steve, my esteemed comrade and long term friend, was joking. At least I hope so...

Tom

[Steve Blair]

Yep, that will werk!

Ursa,

I do believe that Steve, my esteemed comrade and long term friend, was joking. At least I hope so...

Tom

One would assume...although with all this girding of loins talk one can never tell.

[tequila]

Don't worry, Ursa, there are always opportunities available within the bureaucracy or the Corps of Janissaries.

A professor of mine once characterized the Ottoman Empire as one of the only world empires where the sons of the conquered effectively governed the conquerors.

[Rex Brynen]

Don't worry, Ursa, there are always opportunities available within the bureaucracy or the Corps of Janissaries.

I'm pleased you didn't suggest the palace eunuchs...

[Tom Odom]

Don't worry, Ursa, there are always opportunities available within the bureaucracy or the Corps of Janissaries.

A professor of mine once characterized the Ottoman Empire as one of the only world empires where the sons of the conquered effectively governed the conquerors.

Never forget the Mamlukes of Egypt

Slaves once, Pharoahs next

I'm pleased you didn't suggest the palace eunuchs...

The turn over of wives in the Hareem could be deadly as well...

Best

Tom

[UrsaMaior]

Don't worry, Ursa, there are always opportunities available within the bureaucracy or the Corps of Janissaries.

Dang I am too old to become an elite infantryman Well the bureacracy can still be a
chance but we dont really like converts (some would say traitors) around here.

I'm pleased you didn't suggest the palace eunuchs...

I am too old for that too. If my memory serves well they were castrated around at the age of 10-12.

The turn over of wives in the Hareem could be deadly as well...

For whom?

[Tom Odom]

For whom?

For the wives when the Sultan decided it was time to rotate the stock..

Old wives knew too much to get older than their wear out date...

The Sultan decided who was worn out...

Never forget that the Jannissaries were wiped out in similar fashion...

Seniority is not always a guarantor of longevity

as for the eunuchs:

There were several different varieties of eunuchs:

• Sandali, or clean-shaven: The parts are swept off by a single cut of a razor, a tube (tin or wooden) is set in the urethra, the wound is cauterized with boiling oil, and the patient is planted in a fresh dung-hill. His diet is milk, and if under puberty he often survives.
  
• The eunuch whose penis is removed: He retains all the power of copulation and procreation without the wherewithal; and this, since the discovery of caoutchouc, has often been supplied.
  
• The eunuch, or classical thlibias and semivir, who has been rendered sexless by the removing of the testicles..., or by their being bruised..., twisted, seared or bandaged.

Guess what? The eunuch didn't get to pick...

Black eunuchs tended to be of the first category: Sandali, while white eunuchs were of the second or third categories, thus have part or their entire penis intact. Because of their lack of parts, black eunuchs served in the harem, while white eunuchs served in the government (and away from the women). At the height of the Ottoman Empire, as many as six to eight hundred eunuchs served within the Seraglio (palace). Most eunuchs arrived as gifts from governors of different provinces. At the end of their training as young eunuch pages, eunuchs were assigned to service. White eunuchs were placed under the patronage of various government officials or even into the service of the Sultan himself (like in Topkapi Palace). If they were black eunuchs, they were placed into the service of a harem personage, such as a Kadin, or a daughter or sister of the Sultan. They could also serve under the Kizlar Agha (master of the girls), the Chief Black Eunuch.

[UrsaMaior]

I knew about the eunuchs but not the wives. Poor pariahs.

It took two sultans to break the janissaries and the Tansimat e-hayriye (spelling?) IIRC.

[SteveMetz]

For the wives when the Sultan decided it was time to rotate the stock..

Old wives knew too much to get older than their wear out date...

The Sultan decided who was worn out...

Never forget that the Jannissaries were wiped out in similar fashion...

Seniority is not always a guarantor of longevity

as for the eunuchs:



Guess what? The eunuch didn't get to pick...

Yanno, there's only so much storage space in a brain. Think of the opportunity costs you incur by knowing all this stuff.