Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
Lawvol & Dayuhan:

If it comes to abandoning a free nation, if it does come to that, it will be a most remarkable thing. I don't mind getting high sounding even if others roll their eyes when I do, but if the nation of Lincoln were to throw out a nation that has been allied to us and a nation that reflects our values as best as may be approximated in the far east, that would be a huge thing and we wouldn't be much to look at in the mirror anymore. We may get a short term benefit from that but we would have lost something of the spirit that we may never get back again. Not to mention anybody with any sense wouldn't line up with us ever again.
I do not argue that I would abandon Taiwan at this time, I only say that if it is in America's interests to do so at some point, I would do so. You may have already made up your mind that sticking with Taiwan no matter what is in America's interests (an admirable position by the way). I prefer to leave room for future developments since I cannot possibly know what the future brings. Again, I would do what is best for America just like the Lincoln you invoke. Below is a quote demonstrating his realist thinking given his desire to do what was in the interests of preserving the Union. He also demonstrates a difference in his personal thinking and his realist thinking.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men everywhere could be free.
We are a realist thinking nation and so are the others. Slapout's post shows this with respect to Iraq. Idealism just causes problems IMO.