Homosexuality and Military Service (Merged thread)

[Cannoneer No. 4]

is that openly homosexual soldiers will no longer be an issue when the greater society from which the soldiers come no longer stigmatizes sodomy.

Some Neanderthal politically incorrect knuckle draggers resist the idea, questioning why they have less right to privacy than females.

DADT will go away shortly after the next Democrat C-in-C takes office.

The reason I posted it on this forum is because a Clinton political operative with 42 years of military service had his YouTube question aired during the Republican debate and was also present in the audience to ask the question again. The political use of retired military officers to advance social engineering agendas was what interested me.

[Stan]

is that openly homosexual soldiers will no longer be an issue when the greater society from which the soldiers come no longer stigmatizes sodomy.

Some Neanderthal politically incorrect knuckle draggers resist the idea, questioning why they have less right to privacy than females.

Good question. But, I wasn’t specifically targeting what those ‘oriented’ folks do ‘off duty’ and I hope, ‘out of uniform’. Expressing one’s sexual preference in the work place is unprofessional and should never be tolerated. I’m well over 50 and work around very young and available females. Am I then (in my orientation) permitted to display desire? That’s fairly weak Sierra for a male or female in the US Military.


We do not eat where we Sierra and we do not Sierra where we eat…period. This is not an MOS-related issue; the rules apply across the board.

DADT will go away shortly after the next Democrat C-in-C takes office.

That very well may be the case, and the US Military will have to once AGAIN deal with the issue.

The reason I posted it on this forum is because a Clinton political operative with 42 years of military service had his YouTube question aired during the Republican debate and was also present in the audience to ask the question again. The political use of retired military officers to advance social engineering agendas was what interested me.

I like that twist a smigin better and I hate the use of military in political debates. If we were not at war and the politicians had nothing more than the cash in their pockets, those so-called candidates would have little better to discuss than what Bill does with his Cubans

[kehenry1]

I was about to write something both agreeing and disagreeing with certain points made here, but, I saw the above statement so many times, I felt laughter bubbling out uncontrollably.

Beyond the "desegregation", we are talking about a military where women's auxiliary corps were integrated into the main force. We are talking about the military that then opened up certain "combat" MOS and other MOS that could be rightfully construed as being near or absolute in all but name combat MOS (MPs? convoy truck drivers, combat medics, etc, etc, etc).

But more than that, we are talking about the military that cut cigarettes out of rations. Has a drug and alcohol rehab program. Is considering removing pornography, in all its forms, from the AAFES. Has instituted BMI, height and weight standards. Gives 5,000 (exaggerated) vaccines for every type of illness known to man. Will discharge members for domestic violence. Has laws that make single or divorced members give up custody of their children, automatically pay support, provide health insurance, etc

This is a short list of things I can come up with off the top of my head. Ostensibly, all of these things are to effect a more disciplined and physically capable force, amounts to "social engineering".

Pardon me, though, if I have an unrestrained moment of amusement over continued assertions that the military does not "do" social engineering.

[Stan]

Kat, that was soooo good, that some democratic candidate will use it...mark my word...,and he/she will win

social engineering

Well put !

[Jedburgh]

....Is considering removing pornography, in all its forms, from the AAFES....

Considering?! Its been done. It went from covered shelves (yes, plural - some PX's had quite a selection), to covered magazines on covered shelves, to reducing the selection to Playboy, now its game over. Unless you consider Maxim pornography (Well, some PX/BX still carry Playboy, but that's not really porn either).

And you forgot to mention that soldiers are now sent into a hostile fire zone for a year and longer under prohibitions against sex and drinking for the entire time. So for many, its either risk a career to unwind or keep it all in until you blow.

...We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints...

Hell, it gets ridiculously frustrating sometimes. Almost a decade ago I had one of my SSGs receive a Field Grade Art 15 for having a drink with a source in the Balkans. All of our pleading about local culture, source rapport etc. was dismissed by the Bn Cdr in his "zero tolerance" approach. (Just to be clear - the guy wasn't drinking. He nursed a drink while the source was drinking. Anybody who's worked that AO knows there are many people who won't trust you if you don't have a drink with'em. Just like sitting down to drink tea with a source in the ME.)

[Uboat509]

Hell, it gets ridiculously frustrating sometimes. Almost a decade ago I had one of my SSGs receive a Field Grade Art 15 for having a drink with a source in the Balkans. All of our pleading about local culture, source rapport etc. was dismissed by the Bn Cdr in his "zero tolerance" approach. (Just to be clear - the guy wasn't drinking. He nursed a drink while the source was drinking. Anybody who's worked that AO knows there are many people who won't trust you if you don't have a drink with'em. Just like sitting down to drink tea with a source in the ME.)

Ridiculous. Slightly off-topic here but this is another brazen example of a leader enforcing a regulation without bothering to apply any form of critical thought. One of the reasons that I left the big Army and crossed over into the dark side was the number of "leaders" who I had worked for and around who believed that leadership meant ensuring blind to the letter of the regs. Personally, I have always that thought that it was either laziness or stupidity or a combination of both. Thinking is much harder than simply doing whatever the book says. God forbid someone try to consider the intent of a reg rather than just what it says in black and white. Of course we can't have Joe going down town and tying one on with the locals. No good can come from that but is that what was going on with that SSG? Obviously not but why should a leader think when he can just read from a book and do what it says?

[/cynicism]

SFC W

[Global Scout]

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/11/gns_porn_071105/

Dozens of religious and anti-pornography groups have complained to Congress and Defense Secretary Robert Gates that a Pentagon board set up to review magazines and films is allowing sales of material that Congress intended to ban.

"They're saying 'we're not selling stuff that's sexually explicit' … and we say it's pornography," says Donald Wildmon, head of the American Family Association, a Christian anti-pornography group.

And the left comes to the rescue, hell I might start donating to ACLU.

Nadine Strossen, a New York Law School professor who heads the American Civil Liberties Union, says the law effectively censors what troops get to read in remote areas or combat zones. "We're asking these people to risk their lives to defend our Constitution's principles … and they're being denied their own First Amendment rights to choose what they read," she said.

[Ken White]

Ridiculous... Personally, I have always that thought that it was either laziness or stupidity or a combination of both... SFC W

"Regulations were meant to be intelligently disregarded."

Took me about two years to figure out that what you say is too often the case and I gleefully proceeded to ignore a great many for another 40 plus years -- on both sides (even the dark side has a few party line hewers) -- and had a lot of fun doing it...

[selil]

When I was a rookie cop.....

Citizen says to me... "You're here to enforce the law!" (barking dog complaint).
Me... "Nope, I'm here to listen to your complaint". (fifth time we'd been called).
Citizen says to me... "Damn it I pay your sallary you must enforce every law!!! Now!!". (By the way there wasn't any dog next door)
Me... "I realize that sir. Did you realize that your car is parked more than 18 inches from the curb? Sign here. Press hard 3 copies".

Moral of the story? When y'all start complaining about somebody else and wigging out don't be surprised if it comes back to haunt you. Making and abusing the law to harrass somebody else can have dire consequences. Let the soldiers have their porn and nudie magazines. Unless the complainers are serving they should keep their nose out of relaxation and recreation.

[Global Scout]

The extreme right wing Christians in this country are using their leverage to socially engineer the military along with the extreme left. We're going to end up being a cross between Crusaders and Nancy Boys. Probably not the best type of Army to engage in the business of closing with and destroying our enemies.

[kehenry1]

Well, if there is ever two subjects that are likely to bring out the stereo types, homosexuality and pornography are they.

The extreme right wing Christians in this country are using their leverage to socially engineer the military along with the extreme left. We're going to end up being a cross between Crusaders and Nancy Boys. Probably not the best type of Army to engage in the business of closing with and destroying our enemies.

You assume its some "right wing Christians" who had the porno pulled? LOL

That's when I know you haven't hung out with very many "liberated" women who view pornography as "objectifying women" and tantamount to the first step a man or boy can make towards disrespect and possibly sexual assault. LOL

Not that I hold those opinions. Only trying to bring a little perspective into it. Though, you may be right to assume that the "ultra-liberal" and "ultra-conservative" "social engineers" have found a subject they can both agree on. LOL