Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 220 of 317

Thread: Iran, Nukes, Diplomacy and other options (catch all thread 2007-2010)

  1. #201
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    203

    Default I was going to leave this be but

    how can they get away with this.

    Israeli minister threatens Iran

    A top Israeli official has said that if Iran continues with its alleged nuclear arms programme, Israel will attack it.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7440472.stm

    If Israel did attack Iran I hope my government would put together a coalition of the willing and launch a retaliatory strike. If they continue to make threats against another state like this then they should be subject to sanctions and if the US or UK sell them weapons then they should also be subject to sanction.

    What other nation could get away with making threats based on unsubstantiated allegation of a crime (if it is that) of which they are themselves guilty.

    I look forward to your comments.
    Last edited by JJackson; 06-06-2008 at 07:46 PM.

  2. #202
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8,060

    Talking I'll comment on yours if you comment on mine


  3. #203
    Council Member Ron Humphrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,099

    Wink oo oo me too

    Quote Originally Posted by JJackson View Post
    how can they get away with this.



    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7440472.stm

    If Israel did attack Iran I hope my government would put together a coalition of the willing and launch a retaliatory strike. If they continue to make threats against another state like this then they should be subject to sanctions and if the US or UK sell them weapons then they should also be subject to sanction.

    What other nation could get away with making threats based on unsubstantiated allegation of a crime (if it is that) of which they are themselves guilty.

    I look forward to your comments.
    With guys like this over there you might get your wish.
    LINK


    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    By the way have you seen some of his latest stuff.

    Link

    They can't even seem to get more than one quarter of the audience to chant for them.
    The rest just stand around looking pissed off that they had to attend
    Any man can destroy that which is around him, The rare man is he who can find beauty even in the darkest hours

    Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur

  4. #204
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8,060

    Default Yep. Still have some acquaintances there and from there

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Humphrey View Post
    ...By the way have you seen some of his latest stuff.

    They can't even seem to get more than one quarter of the audience to chant for them.
    The rest just stand around looking pissed off that they had to attend
    Probably less than a quarter. The mass of folks are fed up -- not to the point of taking to the street but it's headed that way.

  5. #205
    Council Member bourbon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    903

    Default MacGuffin...

    Ex-Agent Says CIA Ignored Iran Facts, By Joby Warrick. Washington Post, July 1, 2008.

    The onetime undercover agent, who has been barred by the CIA from using his real name, filed a motion in federal court late Friday asking the government to declassify legal documents describing what he says was a deliberate suppression of findings on Iran that were contrary to agency views at the time.

  6. #206
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,602

    Default US, Israel, and the Iranian nuclear program

    "U.S. puts brakes on Israeli plan for attack on Iran nuclear facilities," Haaretz, 13 August 2008.


    The American administration has rejected an Israeli request for military equipment and support that would improve Israel's ability to attack Iran's nuclear facilities.

    A report published last week by the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) states that military strikes are unlikely to destroy Iran's centrifuge program for enriching uranium.

    The Americans viewed the request, which was transmitted (and rejected) at the highest level, as a sign that Israel is in the advanced stages of preparations to attack Iran. They therefore warned Israel against attacking, saying such a strike would undermine American interests. They also demanded that Israel give them prior notice if it nevertheless decided to strike Iran.

    As compensation for the requests it rejected, Washington offered to improve Israel's defenses against surface-to-surface missiles.

    The report mentioned is David Albright, Paul Brannan, and Jacqueline Shire, "Can military strikes destroy Iran’s gas centrifuge program? Probably not" ISIS, 7 August 2008:


    From the time that Iran halted the suspension of its centrifuge manufacturing efforts and its adherence to the Additional Protocol, the IAEA’s knowledge of Iran’s centrifuge manufacturing complex has degraded dramatically. U.S. and other intelligence agencies appear to have only partial information about Iran’s centrifuge complex and its ability to reconstitute its program following an attack. Iran’s decision to disperse and keep secret several of its key sites further hinders the development of a full picture of its centrifuge complex. Considering the modular, replicable nature of centrifuge plants, we conclude that an attack on Iran’s nuclear program is unlikely to significantly degrade Iran’s ability to reconstitute its gas centrifuge program.
    (Apologies to anyone also on MESHnet, since I've made the same post there.)

  7. #207
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JJackson View Post
    If Israel did attack Iran I hope my government would put together a coalition of the willing and launch a retaliatory strike. If they continue to make threats against another state like this then they should be subject to sanctions and if the US or UK sell them weapons then they should also be subject to sanction.

    What other nation could get away with making threats based on unsubstantiated allegation of a crime (if it is that) of which they are themselves guilty.

    I look forward to your comments.
    I have delayed comment deliberately, but here goes. Moderators look in!

    Would you advocated international military retaliation against India for attacking Pakistani WMD facilities? Yes? No?

    The ONLY reason Israel "threatens" Iran is because of both the stated and implied intention of Iran to "wipe Israel off the face of the map". Israel is acting purely out of self defence. What the Iranian President "says for effect", Israel also says for "effect."
    Thanks to both a substantial Iranian population and 3,000 years of anti-semitism, Israel has a far better grasp of this, than the BBC.

    Israel could not care less if the UK, Pakistan, India, or even North Korea has Nukes. If Iran is trying to get nukes, then that is a clear threat against the Jewish people and their homeland.

    If Turkey got Nukes, Israel wouldn't bat an eye.

    Israel has nukes purely for self defence eg:- to deter those who seek to destroy them. Non Nuclear pre-emption is also clearly and logically (as with NATO) associated with that strategy.

    I accept that these realities are not going to sway your particularly "British view" - one I understand, as I grew up with it - but you are essentially advocating attacking a country (which did not act against yours) for actions which fall a long way short of the both the current and historical actions of your own Government (and people), and from a country under considerably less threat than the one in which I live (albeit by choice).
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  8. #208
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    13,349

    Default UK join an anti-Israel coalition?

    Wilf & JJackson,

    Not a hope in hell. Even more so with a Labour government in power in the UK. Nor would we seek to locate others to join a coalition, I exclude diplomacy in the UN for a vote of censure.

    Then there is our much trumpeted "special relationship" with the USA, who is currently Israel's closest ally. Another reason for the UK to stand aside.

    I shall leave aside the whole question of whether Iran has a nuclear capability.

    davidbfpo

  9. #209
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,099

    Default

    CEIP, 16 Sep 08: Iran Says “No”—Now What?
    Summary

    - Neither Iran nor the United States can achieve all it wants in the current nuclear standoff.

    - Iran has demonstrated its unwillingness to comply with IAEA and UN Security Council demands to cease its enrichment activities or to negotiate seriously toward that end.

    - The United States and other interlocutors should offer Iran a last chance to negotiate a suspension of its enrichment program until the IAEA can resolve outstanding issues in return for substantial incentives.

    - If that package were rejected, the P-5 plus Germany should withdraw the incentives and commit to maintaining sanctions as long as Iran does not comply with IAEA demands.

    - Simultaneously, the U.S. should take force “off the table” as long as Iran is not newly found to be seeking nuclear weapons or committing aggression.

  10. #210
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    21

    Default Caroline Glick-Jerusalem Post, Sep. 18, 2008 "It is Time to Act"

    Interesting.

    "Iran is just a heartbeat away from the A-bomb. Last Friday the Daily Telegraph reported Teheran has surreptitiously removed a sufficient amount of uranium from its nuclear production facility in Isfahan to produce six nuclear bombs. .... The IAEA's report claimed that Iran has taken steps to enable its Shihab-3 ballistic missiles to carry nuclear warheads. With a range of 1,300 kilometers, Shihab-3 missiles are capable of reaching Israel and other countries throught the region."

    Cont. at http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

  11. #211
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by h2harris View Post
    Interesting.

    "Iran is just a heartbeat away from the A-bomb. Last Friday the Daily Telegraph reported Teheran has surreptitiously removed a sufficient amount of uranium from its nuclear production facility in Isfahan to produce six nuclear bombs. .... The IAEA's report claimed that Iran has taken steps to enable its Shihab-3 ballistic missiles to carry nuclear warheads. With a range of 1,300 kilometers, Shihab-3 missiles are capable of reaching Israel and other countries throught the region."

    Cont. at http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull
    I've never found Caroline Glick to be a very reliable columnist, and in this case she seems to be spinning a Daily Telegraph story that itself has no foundations. As Arms Control Wonk reports:

    “The article, entitled ‘Iran renews nuclear weapons development’ published in [Friday’s] Daily Telegraph by Con Coughlin and Tim Butcher is fictitious,” IAEA Spokeswoman Melissa Fleming said in a statement.

    “IAEA inspectors have no indication that any nuclear material is missing from the plant,” reads the statement….

  12. #212
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    21

    Default Glick's Vita

    Caroline Glick has an interesting vita. 5 1/2 years as an IDF officer. The last three years of military service, Glick was a core member of Israel's negotiating team with the PLO. She later served as Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's assistant foreign policy advisor. The foreword to her book, "Shackled Warrior" was written by R. James Woolsey, former Director of Central Intelligence.

    For myself, I never follow any one person's words and try to view all with a critical eye. However Glick seems to have a vita which suggest access to sources

  13. #213
    Council Member bourbon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    903

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by h2harris View Post
    For myself, I never follow any one person's words and try to view all with a critical eye. However Glick seems to have a vita which suggest access to sources
    Hi h2harris,

    If Benjamin "Clean Break" Netanyahu and R. James Woolsey are indicative of Glick's sources, then your critical eye, imho, should be working overtime. Also, given recent history, I consider anything by the Telegraph's Con Coughlin to be of dubious veracity. Just my $.02

  14. #214
    Council Member Ron Humphrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    1,099

    Question I don't necessarily disagree with either Rex or Bourbon

    But it would be nice if someone could show me where IAEA actually has been able to tell for sure how much exactly Iran does have in the first place, let alone where it's at?
    Any man can destroy that which is around him, The rare man is he who can find beauty even in the darkest hours

    Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur

  15. #215
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    21

    Default Thanks - .02 Appreciated

    Bourbon,

    Agree on the questioning of references. However in the fog of it all - it is generally agreed that Iran is weaponizing plutonium and delivery systems. The interesting question is what actions can or should be taken. Can no action be a policy? Personally I enjoy Glick's biweekly columns.

    Howard

  16. #216
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,457

    Default

    Wow, agree with Rex. The Glick article is very bad.

  17. #217
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by h2harris View Post
    Caroline Glick has an interesting vita. 5 1/2 years as an IDF officer. The last three years of military service, Glick was a core member of Israel's negotiating team with the PLO. She later served as Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's assistant foreign policy advisor. The foreword to her book, "Shackled Warrior" was written by R. James Woolsey, former Director of Central Intelligence.
    I wondered when somebody was going to brink this up. For me personally, that CV puts her about a quarter of the way up the tree of trusted sources on issues such as these, but then due to locality, I am spoiled!
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  18. #218
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    21

    Default Another Dispatch in the Fog

    The Wall Street Journal - September 22, 2008

    EVERYONE NEEDS TO WORRY ABOUT IRAN
    by Richard Holbrooke, R. James Woolsey, Dennis B. Ross and Mark D. Wallace

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122204266977561331.html

    "We believe that Iran's desire for nuclear weapons is one of the most urgent issues facing America today, because even the most conservative estimates tell us that they could have nuclear weapons soon."

    "A nuclear-armed Iran would likely destabilize an already dangerous region that includes Israel, Turkey, Iraq, Afghanistan, India and Pakistan, and pose a direct threat to America's national security. For this reason, Iran's nuclear ambitions demand a response that will compel Iran's leaders to change their behavior and come to understand that they have more to lose than to gain by going nuclear."

    "Tehran claims that it is enriching uranium only for peaceful energy uses. These claims exceed the boundaries of credibility and science."

    [U]Counter-balancing and balancing all that needs to be do so, would it be interesting to have a discussion on policy and action?/U]

  19. #219

  20. #220
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,099

    Default

    CSIS, 16 Oct 08: Iranian WMD: Capabilities, Developments, and Strategic Uncertainties
    ....Iran‟s progress towards a nuclear weapons capability has had additional major effects. Every state dealing with Iran must decide whether some form of accommodation is possible, and consider its relations with Iran in the context of dealing with a future nuclear power. While a state like Israel may focus on warfighting, other states – particularly Iran‟s neighbors -- must increasingly deal with an Iran which can use nuclear weapons as a tacit or overt threat to bring pressure upon them. Even the future prospect of an Iranian weapon, gives Iran added leverage in the “wars of intimidation” that shape much of the real-world behavior of nations in the region.

    Iran's progress towards nuclear weapons capability also interacts with its growing capability for irregular or asymmetric warfare. It is one thing to deal with Iran‟s use of its Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) when Iran is a relatively weak conventional power. It is another thing to risk taking decisive action, or retaliating in force against Iran‟s use of irregular warfare, when this risks creating lasting tension with a future nuclear power – or the risk of escalation if Iran actually deploys a nuclear capability. Furthermore, Iran‟s ties to Syria, influence in Iraq, links to the Hezbollah, and relations with Hamas raise the specter that Iran not only can use proxies to help it fight irregular wars, but also to help it in some future covert delivery of nuclear weapons.....

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •