Iraq: Permanent U.S. Bases Unacceptable

[ali_ababa]

Iraq will never allow the U.S. to keep permanent military bases on its soil, the government’s national security adviser has said.
"We need the United States in our war against terrorism, we need them to guard our border sometimes, we need them for economic support and we need them for diplomatic and political support," Mowaffaq al-Rubaie said.
"But I say one thing, permanent forces or bases in Iraq for any foreign forces is a red line that cannot be accepted by any nationalist Iraqi," he said, speaking to Dubai-based al Arabiya television in an interview broadcast late Dec. 10.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...2165&C=mideast

To be honest with you - i think this is all crap. Mowaffaq al-Rubaie just said this in order to be on more 'friendly' terms with Saudi Arabia and other Arab states. In fact, it has worked since the UAE and Saudi Arabia will reopen diplomatic missions etc. in Baghdad which will lead to embassies.

As an Iraqi, I would love Iraq to host American military bases in Iraq so that it deters Iraq's neighbours from invading (Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc.).
Also, it means Iraq will remain democratic and no more dictatorships.

A friendship that America has with Germany, South Korea and Japan i hope will happen to Iraq as well.

[tulanealum]

You might want that, but most Iraqis don't. I'm not saying it would be beneficial for Iraq, but for now, it just isn't a good idea...as a matter of fact, we SHOULD be echoing Rubaie's thoughts...we've never reached out to the Iraqis and said why we're in Iraq other than democracy, etc. Stating that we don't want to stay in Iraq forever and reinforcing this attitude could help...it certainly can't hurt.

The goal is not to set a timetable in the short-term, but to explain that we are not planning on being there 20 years from now if things have improved and there is no longer any war...we will leave quicker through peace than through fighting.

[JeffC]

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...2165&C=mideast

To be honest with you - i think this is all crap.

As an Iraqi, I would love Iraq to host American military bases in Iraq so that it deters Iraq's neighbours from invading (Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc.).
Also, it means Iraq will remain democratic and no more dictatorships.

Speaking of "crap", why would an authentic Iraqi citizen, as you claim to be, choose to use Wikipedia as a reference for his signature quote commemorating "Iraq's True Leader Abdul Karim Qassim" when there must be hundreds of authentic cultural references to choose from?

The short answer is, he wouldn't. Only a person creating a sock identity to post to an Internet forum would make that kind of mistake, "Ali Ababa".

[Ken White]

Speaking of "crap", why would an authentic Iraqi citizen, as you claim to be, choose to use Wikipedia as a reference for his signature quote commemorating "Iraq's True Leader Abdul Karim Qassim" when there must be hundreds of authentic cultural references to choose from?

The short answer is, he wouldn't. Only a person creating a sock identity to post to an Internet forum would make that kind of mistake, "Ali Ababa".

that's an attack on the poster, not his comment. We try to refrain from that. Thanks.

[JeffC]

that's an attack on the poster, not his comment. We try to refrain from that. Thanks.

If the poster isn't genuine, meaning he is pretending to be something that he's not, it isn't an attack, Ken. I simply don't believe that this poster is real, and I'm saying it as simply and directly as I know how. If calling the poster on it is not allowed, then what is the preferred method, because I really don't think that it's in anyone's interest to tolerate fictional characters as members, do you?

If Ali Ababa can demonstrate to a moderator, via a qualified email address or in some other way, that's he's an Iraqi citizen, then I'll be happy to apologize for my mistake and I'll make a donation of US$50 to the International Red Crescent in his name.

http://donate.ifrc.org/

[Ron Humphrey]

If the poster isn't genuine, meaning he is pretending to be something that he's not, it isn't an attack, Ken. I simply don't believe that this poster is real, and I'm saying it as simply and directly as I know how. If calling the poster on it is not allowed, then what is the preferred method, because I really don't think that it's in anyone's interest to tolerate fictional characters as members, do you?

If Ali Ababa can demonstrate to a moderator, via a qualified email address or in some other way, that's he's an Iraqi citizen, then I'll be happy to apologize for my mistake and I'll make a donation of US$50 to the International Red Crescent in his name.

http://donate.ifrc.org/

thats the reason I chose to try questioning the overall intention of his first post ref the IP was for this type of thing. If someone is trying to muddy the water then one of the best ways to counter might be to add more water thus lessening the dilution or by point / counter point. I think this will always show whats what in the end.

Just my take though, so take it for what it's worth.

[Ken White]

If the poster isn't genuine, meaning he is pretending to be something that he's not, it isn't an attack, Ken. I simply don't believe that this poster is real, and I'm saying it as simply and directly as I know how. If calling the poster on it is not allowed, then what is the preferred method, because I really don't think that it's in anyone's interest to tolerate fictional characters as members, do you?

If Ali Ababa can demonstrate to a moderator, via a qualified email address or in some other way, that's he's an Iraqi citizen, then I'll be happy to apologize for my mistake and I'll make a donation of US$50 to the International Red Crescent in his name.

http://donate.ifrc.org/

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but I'd point out that you have no proof of your accusation and his ability to disprove it may be limited by circumstances of which we are not aware -- or even no desire to respond which is his right. The owners and operators of this Board are entitled to establish rules as they wish and it behooves us who post here with their permission to heed those rules.

We'll have to differ on your first sentence, above. You correctly provided that all important caveat of "If." That's the point, it's not known and yet you accused.

You offer is generous but moot and no apology is required. While there are admittedly folks all over the internet using pseudonyms and providing false backgrounds, the position here is take posters at face value. If it's an overriding issue for you, you could send him a polite Private Message as an inquiry. Please address your comments on the open board to the comment made, not the individual who made it.

Thanks again and we should just move on.

[SWCAdmin]

Thanks again and we should just move on.

Sage advice in two posts from Ken White, only the tail end of which is quoted here. FYI, the red and yellow cards next to the offensive posts are infractions and indicate moderator interventions.

We do not vouch for ali-ababa's credentials or position, and do not object to JeffC's basic questioning of them, but the absence of tact and elegance in so doing is not welcome here. This is not a UFC Smackdown.

[selil]

While there are admittedly folks all over the internet using pseudonyms and providing false backgrounds, the position here is take posters at face value.

People aren't using their real names or they use pseudonyms? Where? Oh wait that would be me....

Obscured identities do serve the purpose of allowing people to be more truthful even if the anonymity is not as deep as they expect. You have awesome advice Mr. White that promotes understanding. I prefer to have my assumptions challenged through the mediation of the Internet rather than find them flawed on the battle field (metaphorically of course since I'm scared of conflict). Courtesy in debate regardless of the topic engenders reason even in the face of abject ignorance. One of the things I've respected and honored about SWC is the clarity of reason and purpose that professionals in the art of arms bring to the scholarship of conflict.

[Sean Osborne]

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...2165&C=mideast

To be honest with you - i think this is all crap. Mowaffaq al-Rubaie just said this in order to be on more 'friendly' terms with Saudi Arabia and other Arab states. In fact, it has worked since the UAE and Saudi Arabia will reopen diplomatic missions etc. in Baghdad which will lead to embassies.

As an Iraqi, I would love Iraq to host American military bases in Iraq so that it deters Iraq's neighbours from invading (Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia etc.).
Also, it means Iraq will remain democratic and no more dictatorships.

A friendship that America has with Germany, South Korea and Japan i hope will happen to Iraq as well.

I agree with you in large measure Ali Ababa.

But in consideration of the point of origin of Mowaffaq al-Rubaie's statement, I don't think it is all crap, rather that it reflects a significant amount nationalist fervor. I tend to think in this statement that he was reacting to the agreement between Bush and al-Maliki would would establish a bilateral pact after the UN mandate expires - a long term defense pact between the United States and Iraq not unlike that preiously concluded with Germany, Japan, South Korea.

With history as a guide and knowing the threat posed by other bordering states, I think such a long-term pact might be essential in the interests of Iraq and the U.S. It could be similar to what as the U.S. has agreed to with Kuwait. The U.S. military support and infrastructure facility at Arifjan, Kuwait is as about as "permanent" as they come.