Infantry Unit Tactics, Tasks, Weapons, and Organization

[Distiller]

Good point about the UAVs.
Didn't think about that while writing, though I'm usually an UAV guy ...
But I would not neccessarily integrate an UAV into a company, only give it a data receiver station. Assuming that we talk foot soldiers here only micro/mini-UAVs come into question - they are nice and developing fast, but their capabilities are quite limited so far. And I wouldn't integrate too many non-shooters in too low echelons, also because of ECM/ECCM issues and advanced homing-on-emitter ammo. Of course in the future we're not only talking UAVs, but also UGVs. UAV/UGVs I'd put higher up (battalion level plus), together with ISR assets, like SIGINT. And once they reach autonomy they will filter down through all the echelons, but I'd start with them at battalion level.


Guided missiles on platoon level is not realistic, too expensive. Esp since they are needed only for certain missions. And if organized in fire crews on a higher level they can be distributed downwards if needed, anyways.
Precision-attack capability for squad/platoon level could be realized by targeting capability for PGMMs.


Why only 60mm mortars? The Wehrmacht had quite good experience with the 3-men crew served sGrW34. A lot more punch than 60mm, I think it justifies the higher weight/less rounds ammo. Esp when combined with a MGL at platoon level. To save weapons weight use a short barrel. No need to reach out to 5000M+ in my opinion. How do you ID targets so far out?
(Even though I have to admit that the follow-on to sGrW34, Granatwerfer 37, was designed to reach out to 4500m+; but the reason for that might be non-tactical).


That brings up another question: So squads are seldom fighting beyond 200m. Meaning platoons neither. What should then be the reach of an infantry company? I think 2500 to 3000m is realistic. Opinion?

[William F. Owen]

Good point about the UAVs.

1. Didn't think about that while writing, though I'm usually an UAV guy ., but I'd start with them at battalion level.

2. Guided missiles on platoon level is not realistic, too expensive.

3. Why only 60mm mortars?

4. So squads are seldom fighting beyond 200m.

1. I'm happy with Coy. Gives the Coy Comd a view of each platoon objective and if the company is working away from the Battle Group, it still has a UAV capability. Also the UAV product gets fed to platoons very quickly. If the UAV is at BG level there is a whole new level of command for stuff to jam up in.

2. Most US Squads have Javelin and did have Dragon. Platoon seems ideal. Spike MR is so capable that it requires a whole new view of Platoon weapons.

3. Having carried 2 x 81mm mortar bombs across Germany, Canada, and Cyprus, I am not a fan unless they are vehicle mounted. Also 60mm mortar ammo can be used in light hand held mortars.

4. I don't think squads seldom fight beyond 200m, to the extent we should limit the capability to that other than to recognise the limit of IWs as concerns marksmanship. I'd want a platoon to hit out 1000m min and 2000m better. Javelin goes to 3,200m IIRC and

[Distiller]

@ #1: Hm. I see your point. But: Look here, an advanced system.
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SI...ILES/7/617.pdf
The control station is big as a full-size fridge. No way you can haul that on your back.

@ #2: Since I'm not U.S. I didn't know. You have to be rich to place it on squad level.
The reason I would want to place a Spike-MR on company level, is that I don't want to grow the platoon into a mini-company.
And I mean, how many tanks will you encounter out there that made it through smart stand-off subammo >> fighterbombers >> fast-mover CAS >> a/t-helicopters >> smart artillery rounds, to finally wind up in front of your platoon? And for anti-structure jobs a RPG-style weapon or PGMM seems more cost effective to me.

@ #3: Didn't say it's fun . That's why using a MGL at platoon level.

@ #4: Ok, understood - in your platoon 60mm mortars and ATGMs would be capable of doing that.

[William F. Owen]

@ #1: Hm. I see your point. But: Look here, an advanced system.
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SI...ILES/7/617.pdf
The control station is big as a full-size fridge. No way you can haul that on your back.

@ #2: Since I'm not U.S. I didn't know. You have to be rich to place it on squad level.
The reason I would want to place a Spike-MR on company level, is that I don't want to grow the platoon into a mini-company.
And I mean, how many tanks will you encounter out there that made it through smart stand-off subammo >> fighterbombers >> fast-mover CAS >> a/t-helicopters >> smart artillery rounds, to finally wind up in front of your platoon? And for anti-structure jobs a RPG-style weapon or PGMM seems more cost effective to me.

@ #3: Didn't say it's fun . That's why using a MGL at platoon level.

@ #4: Ok, understood - in your platoon 60mm mortars and ATGMs would be capable of doing that.

1. I know Skylite well. You can carry the control station but not easy. It's best integrated into the Coy CP vehicle. There are lots of these type of UAVs to choose from.

2. How is equipping 1 Fireteam in the Platoon with a Spike MR post and 3 missiles making it into a mini-Coy? Platoon Level Guided weapons are an very valid fire support options. Like I said, my cost preference would be for an updated M47 Dragon and even 9К115-2 Metis-M. -AT-7/13

3. Well if you have an M-32 with Medium Velocity 40mm, then OK, but if I have UGLs in the Fireteams, also with Medium velocity, that's duplication.

[Distiller]

@ 2: What is the notion behind giving your squad/platoon an ATGM, but leaving the 60mm mortar with the company?
If you group different effectors at a certain level, they should be akin in range and impact (RPG - MGL; mortar - ATGM).
And what do you do with those low echelon (platoon) 3-men special weapons shooter team if you don't need their special capability? A fourth mini-squad? Add one man to each existing squad (Then you might run into group-dynamic and transportation problems)? Or leave them at home? Group them one level higher and you have another full squad.
Plus I wouldn't be comfortable with having just one ATGM team out there.

@ 3: The M-32 is what I have in mind. I have no idea how useful/popular UGLs are. I just think that a single dedicated weapon with one characteristic is enough, not two tactics/ballistics/effects for one man. Plus the MGL shooter is probabaly better with his weapon than a stand-in grenadier.

[William F. Owen]

@ 2: What is the notion behind giving your squad/platoon an ATGM, but leaving the 60mm mortar with the company?
If you group different effectors at a certain level, they should be akin in range and impact (RPG - MGL; mortar - ATGM).

Assume your 60mm mortar has a 3,200m indirect range. That means two tubes can support any platoon within 2,300m of the base plate position.

ATGM are direct fire weapons so each platoon can have fire support best manifested by weapons teams with ATGMs. There is another aspect here, which is Coy Level Weapons detachments, need extra vehicles. Put the weapons capability in existing groups and you save a lot of bodies, fuel and cost, for good benefit.

Spike can be both direct and indirect, out to 4,000m. However this requires some pretty good C3I work, so not as simple as point and shoot as with Javelin or something similar.

[Norfolk]

I'm not clear that humping a Javelin at ~50 pounds is a real good idea at Platoon Level. Hauling around the M-2 version of the Carl Gustav at ~30 pounds was fun enough, not including additional ammo or the CG's kit; the M-3 version of the Carl Gustav was only ~20 pounds, but it was a Section-level weapon. A Javelin would be far worse, and a Spike MR not much better. 3-man ATGM crew will only be able to carry a handful of rounds (I just don't comprehend notions of a 2-man Javelin crew with just a pair of missiles - it is almost a case of why bother?); a 4-man crew should be able to carry a full load of 8 rounds per launcher.

Four ATGM Launchers, normally held at Company level might be tactically more practical and more effective anyway, particularly as the Company Commander would retain control and be able to coordinate the fires of his main AT capability. The ATGMs could work in pairs, which is the best tactical usage of them anyway. The UK version of Javelin has a range of 2,500 m and a Tripod and Surveillance System that is better than the dedicated surveillance systems presently in use by Surveillance Dets - big capability jump for Companies. As such, ATGMs held at Company should only be attached out to Platoons when and where the tactical circumstances make it appropriate, such as when close terrain or cover make massing at Coy level impracticle. In detaching Company-level weapons out to Platoons and lower, much of the effect of their massing at Company level is lost; efficiencies are poor returns for loss of fire effects.

The 8 cm mortar is much too heavy for Company level, and it is properly a Battalion-level weapon, and best employed there. Even the 5 cm/51 mm mortar was rather limited in its supply of ammunition, and the 60 mm mortar provides a dramatic leap in range and firepower over it, without imposing an increase in ammo burden that is unbearable at Coy or Platoon level. Only Armoured/Mechanized Infantry have ever been able to use the 8 cm/81 mm mortars at Company level more or less successfully, and they could not be attached out to dismounted Platoons when tactical circumstances required it.

Four 60 mm mortars, normally held at Coy level is best, and to be attached out to Platoons (especially in the Hand-Held Role with Light Baseplate) when tactical circumstances so dictate. With 4 Light Mortars at Coy level and a Mortar Fire Controller (MFC) organic to or attached, a full Mortar Group is available for Company Fire Tasks, and especially for on-the-spot Fire Missions that don't require making any requests to Battalion or above; the Company Commander or the Platoon or Section Commanders can request a full barrage right away and get an almost immediate response to fleeting but useful opportunities.

Medium Machine Guns: Again, 4 at Company level, normally operating in two groups of two guns each, with a Gun Controller, to provide the Company Commander with maximum ability to lay down and coordinate Machine Gun Fires for best effect. Attach MMGs out to Platoons when terrain and cover masks their fires at Company level. Nothing less than a 7.62 mm round; to be honest, I'd like a return to the full-power .30-06 (7.62x63 mm) round that many Machine Guns used to use (and were purposely designed to take full advantage of the .30-06's qualities) - effective out to ~2,700 m rather than 1,800 m.

Automatic Grenade Launchers: Once again, 4 at Company level, with a Gun Controller, and the same rules as before about when to attach out to Platoons, when terrain or cover mask their fires at Company level. The Chinese use a 35 mm AGL at Coy level with 6-15 round drum magazines, and the unloaded weapon weighs the same as an MMG. It likewise has an SF Role just as the MMG does, and its range goes from 600 m in the Light Role to 1, 750 m in the SF Role. The new 40 mm Medium-Power Grenade in Western Service would be an ideal round for a Western counterpart to the PLA's Type 87:

http://www.sinodefence.com/army/crew...enade_35mm.asp

A range of 800 m in the Light Role (complementary to the 800 m range of the MMG) is the demonstrated range of the 40 mm Medium Grenade; a Medium AGL based on such a round, with a Tripod for stabilization in the SF role, may achieve rather longer ranges. It would be best for such AGLs to be coordinated with the MMGs just as the Mk 19 GMG and the M-2 HMG are. MGs of course would take the FPF tasks as well as others, while the AGLs (for obvious reasons) would take on Anti-Armour tasks and certain other tasks beyond the FPF.
The M-32 is certainly a useful weapon, but it lacks versatility compared to the Type 87. If the Company possessed a weapon like the Type 87, the M-32 would be redundant; UGLs like the M-203 are quite adequate, and necessary, for dealing with point and area targets by the Squads and Sections, just as LMGs are similarly necessary in Squads and Sections.

Either the M-3 version of the Carl Gustav should be provided to each Squad and Section, or something lighter (~15 pounds) like the RPG should be, for ranges beyond 200 m. Weapons like LAW are useful for individual infantrymen (out to 200 m), but RPGs have proven worthy opponents in the Firefight; our Infantry should not have to face foes whose Squads and Sections use such weapons against us without us being able to respond at least in kind.

I will leave Battalion-level and IFVs for now.

[William F. Owen]

Javelin: - Is that heavy. Rounds are 35lbs approx and the CLU far lighter. The UK version has a tripod for extended surveillance. Yes it is not light, but look at the capability. The Coy commander merely has to have radio contact with the teams in the Platoons (All informed Coy Net?) to control AT fires. He does not need to physically control them. Spike, with 4,000m fibre optic guidance, changes all the rules, including the need for mortars

Restricted terrain, like urban, forest and jungle means that each Platoon has got to fend for itself to a certain extent. Actually getting a weapon to a point and time in space to attack a fleeting target, is not best enabled by grouping weapons at the Coy level, IMO.

I settled for 2 x 60mm at the Coy level, because you can get the both crews into 1 vehicle. I think what a Stryker Company does with mounted (81mm) and dismounted (60mm) mortars is interesting.

For MMG I'd just issues SF kits to the GPMG teams in the platoons.

AGLs -ala Mk19 or H&K GMG can't be man-packed in an effective way. On RWS on an APC they are excellent, but I'd steer clear of them for dismounted ops. - same is true for .50 guns as well.

There is something else about Coy level weapons. For training and all the other issues they need to grouped into a Coy Level Weapons platoon. - That's a huge increase in costs and manpower. Cost is an issue.

[William F. Owen]

Nothing less than a 7.62 mm round; to be honest, I'd like a return to the full-power .30-06 (7.62x63 mm) round that many Machine Guns used to use (and were purposely designed to take full advantage of the .30-06's qualities) - effective out to ~2,700 m rather than 1,800 m.

Agreed. The other winner about 7.62mm link, is that if your vehicles have 7.62mm RWS, there is Sh*t loads of ammo swimming about. - which is why the Germans gave their new MICV a 5.56mm co-ax!!! - you'd expect better from the creators of the Panzer Grenadier myth!

7.62mm in the SF Role is effective far beyond 1,800m. That is just the distance the the SASC in the UK wrote the tables out to. I am trying to use a ballistics program to do a table out to 3,000m, but I am too thinly spread at the moment - and a set of tables out to 3,000m does exist, but I can't find a copy. It was written at the SF Gun Wing at Netheravon in the late 1980's.

SF Gun Wing was interesting. The Wing was also the Close Recce Wing. Same instructors, class rooms etc.