Infantry Unit Tactics, Tasks, Weapons, and Organization

[82redleg]

Do the carriers carry both natures/kinds of ammo? And waht, hypothetically, speaking, if you need everything?

IMO arms room is fine for so-called small wars but for a big one you might find yourself short-handed, so to speak.

60 x 120mm rds AND 35 x 81mm rds OR 77 x 60mm rds.

If you "need everything", then you fill out your crews will 11Bs, or you man your 120s until you run out of ammo, and then switch to the smaller system.

Remember, the arms room concept didn't reduce the number of crews, it just increased flexibility by adding different options for those crews to man. A 1995 infantry battalion had 4 x 81mm tubes and 6 x 60mm tubes, with 10 crews. A 2010 SBCT IN BN has 4 x 81mm tubes, 6 x 60mm tubes and an additional 10 x 120 tubes with the same 10 crews. A 2010 IBCT IN BN has 4 x 81mm tubes, 6 x 60mm tubes and an additional 4 x 120 tubes with the same 10 crews. I don't see how adding capability can be construed as a problem.

[Fuchs]

...unless you care about disadvantages, such as logistical problems and increased training requirements (less time for training as defensive infantryman).

[82redleg]

...unless you care about disadvantages, such as logistical problems and increased training requirements (less time for training as defensive infantryman).

The "logistical problems" are minimal- you have to manage a couple more types of ammunition that are already in the log train anyway. The 120mm is an addition to the Infantry BN, but was already present in the Cavalry, Mech and AR BNs. Not a big deal.

Additional training time is minimal- the fuzes, charges, fire control and crew procedures are all the same. The biggest difference is setting up the bipod/baseplate on the dismounted systems, which were already present when you had a dismountable 120mm mortar, like in the old M1064 mortar carriers.

[Fuchs]

The French journal "Doctrine" devoted an entire issue to the topic of tactics in context of small wars.

http://www.cdef.terre.defense.gouv.f...ctrine18us.pdf

[Rifleman]

The "logistical problems" are minimal- you have to manage a couple more types of ammunition that are already in the log train anyway.

And it doesn't seem like it would be any more difficult than the days when it was 60mm, 81mm, and 4.2".

The 120mm is an addition to the Infantry BN, but was already present in the Cavalry, Mech and AR BNs.

Why didn't infantry battalions have 120mm for a while? They had 4.2" years ago.

[82redleg]

And it doesn't seem like it would be any more difficult than the days when it was 60mm, 81mm, and 4.2".

Why didn't infantry battalions have 120mm for a while? They had 4.2" years ago.

I didn't know that we ever had 60s, 81s and 4.2s in the same BN. I thought that the standard was 3 x 81s in the company, and 4 or 6 x 4.2s in the BN Mortar Platoon, with the exchange of 81s for 60s on some light MTOES in Vietnam. I'm not sure what the old airborne BNs looked like.

The 3 x 81 mortar platoon in the company was exchanged to a 2 x 60 section in the mid-80s Light Infantry Division MTOEs, and the 4.2s changed to a 4 x 81 platoon (what was that organization called? J Series? AoE?). I'm not sure what the 9th ID (Motorized) looked like at this time- I understand that it changed multiple times the entire time it was HTTB. Infantry battalions had only 81s and 60s from then until the Force XXI experiments in the late 90s, but some (my both battalions I was an FSO for in the 82nd) didn't get the arms room 120s until after GWOT. The arms room concept was tested (by some BNs in 10th and 101st, IIRC), and then formalized with the introduction of the "Modularity" MTOES in 2004-2006 (at least in the active component, although even active we have 2 or maybe 3 BCTs still on legacy LCD XXI MTOEs, but I think they are all heavy, not light).

[Rifleman]

I didn't know that we ever had 60s, 81s and 4.2s in the same BN.

You're probably right as far as official MTOEs go. But haven't some units task organized all along? I saw a post on another message board and the poster said his unit in Korea had 60s and 81s in the rifle company arms room and 4.2s in the battalion's combat support company.

And I know that rifle companies in Alaska in the early 80s had 90mm RRs in the company weapons platoon but rifle companies at Bragg didn't. As far as I know, the Alaska troopers were the only other unit outside the Ranger Battalions still using 90s at the time.

The 3 x 81 mortar platoon in the company was exchanged to a 2 x 60 section in the mid-80s Light Infantry Division MTOEs, and the 4.2s changed to a 4 x 81 platoon (what was that organization called? J Series? AoE?).

Correct, I remember that one. 3/325 changed when we rotated from Bragg to Vicenza.

[82redleg]

You're probably right as far as official MTOEs go. But haven't some units task organized all along? I saw a post on another message board and the poster said his unit in Korea had 60s and 81s in the rifle company arms room and 4.2s in the battalion's combat support company.

And I know that rifle companies in Alaska in the early 80s had 90mm RRs in the company weapons platoon but rifle companies at Bragg didn't. As far as I know, the Alaska troopers were the only other unit outside the Ranger Battalions still using 90s at the time.

Correct, I remember that one. 3/325 changed when we rotated from Bragg to Vicenza.

It may have happened, but I have never heard of it. I do know that Korea has often lagged on implementing TOE changes, for whatever reasons (for instance, they never converted to the LCD XXI MTOEs, and retained 4 line companies in their tank/mech BNs until they converted to the modular MTOEs). It would be likely, when converting from 81mm to 60mm in the rifle companies, that the rifle companies retained the 81s, at least for some time, and especially if they recieved their 60s before the MTOE became effective.

I don't know about 90mms, either, but the same thing could have happened- the MTOE authorized Dragons (that's what replaced the RRs, right?), but either hadn't been fielded yet, or there was a delay in turning in the 90s, so the arms room had them both for a while.