Quote Originally Posted by relative autonomy View Post
...As for critiquing authoritarian forms, i don't really understand you point. I never said the only authoritarian forms that needed to be critiqued exist in the economy so i am not sure what you are getting at.
You said, earlier "Fascism maybe overused but I also think people need to incorporate a critique of authoritarian forms...". My comment is that Socialism is as dangerous as Fascism and deserves just as much criticism. If you want credibility as a basher, bash fairly and equitably.
You point about hearts and minds is basically the problem of culture. if that's your position i don't understand how you can justify a the US invading any country that isn't western Christian nation. Culturally and historically, when the US intervenes in a formerly colonized nation with a different religion it is more likely than not to be understood as imperialism, plain and simple.
True, though I fail to see how what I said justifies invading any western christian nation. My point was that the "hearts and minds" gig is stupid myth and you aren't going to win anyone's heart or mind invading them. The phrase needs to disappear.
Toe the Bush Administration line on Iraq if that makes you feel better but that doesn't change the fact that intelligence was manipulated and the country was duped into supporting an invasion for reasons that turned out to be lies ... If you think this war is really about making Iraq a democracy, i feel sorry for you. This is were I think its important to consider Klein's argument, especially in light of the reforms Bremer pushed through.
Heh. I'm not toeing the Bush line on Iraq but you sure do have all the standard talking points on the issue down pat. Some are correct, some not -- all are irrelevant. I did not say this war was about making Iraq a democracy, BTW -- I did say ""The "secular, quasi-socialist authoritarian state, which had no love for Islamic radicalism nor any connection to 9-11. also had the misfortune of possessing an unloved dictator, pariah status, a largely ineffective military and, most importantly, geographic centrality in the Middle East."" Adding with 'minimal disruption of world oil flow because we really want China and India to have all the oil they need' and those are the real reasons Iraq was selected; it was the vehicle for the goal -- which was to shake up the ME big time and let them know we were no longer going to fail to respond to provocations as we had for the previous 20 plus years. No governmental form concerned or mentioned, we couldn't care less as long as they behave and leave us alone. Tough but them's the breaks in the real world.

We don't really care what form of government they use. You should pay less attention to political rhetoric from either side -- pols lie constantly --and more to what actually happens...
As for the US policy toward Saudi Arabia and Pakistan since 1950, it hasbeen a lot more complicated than that your one sentence suggests.
Of course it's more complicated that that -- just as the invasion of Iraq is far more complex than your sophomoric and polemical talking points above.
Back to Klein shock docterine, i think her work is important...
We can continue to disagree on that.