The Roles and Weapons with the Squad

[William F. Owen]

There's more to a weapon than the cyclic rate, muzzle velocity and carried weight. Before the M249, there was an attempt to use an M16A1 with a bipod as the squad automatic rifle.

There may be more but this is the frame of the discussion we can usefully progress. ROF does not = Suppression. Carried weight costs a lot, and muzzle velocity defines an number of things such as comparative ranges and terminal effects.

The flow down effects of an 5.56mm LMG were simply not calculated or argued in a constructive way. It was just assumed that the US, and then the UK, "needed" such a weapon so one appeared.

Agreed the M-16 LSW is a bit of a dog because of the direct impingement gas system, but the concept was basically sound.

The UK L86A2 is conceptually a very good weapon, though widely misunderstood, leading to bad doctrine and not taught well in training. It's now the DMR weapon in the fireteam for no reasons that make sense.

The HK-416 with a 20 inch barrel and a bipod would do the same/better job, as would the Ultimax Mk-5.

[Render]

Wouldn't that SAW's inclusion in the squad TOE have something to do with the squads ability to fill the air with lead?

TIME
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PLACE,
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[Ken White]

I'm unsure why anyone would wish to do so. Seems sort of pointless to me.

[Jones_RE]

Assuming that you don't need the belt feed ability of M249 often enough to justify the weight, complexity and extra maintenance. . . Should the automatic rifle fire the same round as the assault rifle? A more powerful round should still be controllable with the bipod and heavy barrel, but is it worth the weight and logistic hassles?

On another topic - fire and maneuver at the squad level doesn't seem to have a lot of fans here. I can imagine why - how many enemies can one fire team suppress? Is there still a place for fire teams in an organization that's likely to fight as a single unit?

[William F. Owen]

Assuming that you don't need the belt feed ability of M249 often enough to justify the weight, complexity and extra maintenance. . . Should the automatic rifle fire the same round as the assault rifle? A more powerful round should still be controllable with the bipod and heavy barrel, but is it worth the weight and logistic hassles?

I think, that for the general fire teams, a 5.56mm Carbine, and 1-2 5.56mm LSW a good mix. Heavier weapons could go in other fireteams

On another topic - fire and maneuver at the squad level doesn't seem to have a lot of fans here. I can imagine why - how many enemies can one fire team suppress? Is there still a place for fire teams in an organization that's likely to fight as a single unit?

Trials would suggest a fire team of 4 men can suppress about 3-5m frontage. Fire teams are excellent for C2, movement and weapons control. We've always had them, but we just refuse to admit it. Gun Group and Rifle Group, were/are fire teams. The "Marshall error" of creating mirror fire teams meant that got lost.