The Roles and Weapons with the Squad

[Kiwigrunt]

It is interesting to see that HK's brand new 7.62 MG5 Universal (GPMG/MMG) weighs a whopping 11.6 kg. The LMG Infantry version (with pencil barrel and lacking a bipod) still weighs about 10.5 kg. I'm all for saving weight, but to shave a relatively measly one kg off a solid machine gun by severely compromising two of the most important aspects of a machine gun – the barrel and the support – seems ridiculous to me.

FN's 7.62 Minimi weighs about 8 kg (depending on config). The NZ army now uses that in lieu of the retired 5.56 Mimini. I had a chat to a NZ army officer recently, who is of the opinion that they should have gone back to the L7 / Mag58 at section level. He thinks the Minimi is too fragile and rattly.

The Danes are currently introducing the latest pencil barrel iteration of the M60 for use at section level.

Indeed Fuchs, if the Russian 'full weight' 7.5 kg PKM is as durable as the West's traditional GPMGs, than what are we missing?
The Pecheneg is interesting. I've not been able to find any user feedback on it. The bipod at the muzzle is said to improve accuracy. I wonder for how long, after the barrel heats up. As Fuchs alluded to, the Pecheneg LMG is actually heavier than the PKM GPMG. The weight saving and user simplification of the Pecheneg is in the lack of a spare barrel, which at section level is not a bad thing.

This conversation keeps going round and round in circles. I wonder if, rather than defining the role of the MG, it has become more about this week's accepted compromise. Durability and robustness vs. weight. We tweak the role-narrative to suit this week's compromise or fashion.

We all know what Ken would have said about all of this. I too miss him.

jcustis, at the risk of seeing the whole IAR debate regurgitated (let's not), do you have any feedback on experiences with it now that it has been used for a bit in Afghanistan? Are the marines happy with the IAR in its intended role, or do they miss the SAW? I imagine there would have been plenty of 240s around to mitigate the lack of the SAW.

[Compost]

This conversation keeps going round and round in circles. I wonder if, rather than defining the role of the MG, it has become more about this week's accepted compromise. Durability and robustness vs. weight. We tweak the role-narrative to suit this week's compromise or fashion.

For small firearms at least durability and ruggedness seem to have finally won out and are now generally regarded as more important and vital than weight. Hence the return of the gas piston supplanting direct gas in many recent variants of the M4. Also the longevity of the heavy and cumbersome MAG58/M240. The Gucci lizardskin variant might even be scrapped as it suffers from metal fatique especially when fired from a pintle instead of a softmount.

[jcustis]

For small firearms at least durability and ruggedness seem to have finally won out and are now generally regarded as more important and vital than weight. Hence the return of the gas piston supplanting direct gas in many recent variants of the M4. Also the longevity of the heavy and cumbersome MAG58/M240. The Gucci lizardskin variant might even be scrapped as it suffers from metal fatique especially when fired from a pintle instead of a softmount.

Would you use functioning interchangeably with durability? If so, I'd agree. One of the appealing characteristics of the piston is the reduction of carbon fouling finding its way into the chamber.

There are also continual improvements in bolt carrier groups, chambers, magazines, trigger packs, and even charging handles with specific geometries to reduce failure, and even improve ambidextrous usage.

There is also a lot of unicorn hunting for the perfect lubricant, and there are even some folks testing the old beliefs like running a rifle with less lube in a desert environment.

It's all about squeezing out that last fraction of performance to ensure that when you pull the trigger, it goes bang instead of click.

[Compost]

Would you use functioning interchangeably with durability? If so, I'd agree. One of the appealing characteristics of the piston is the reduction of carbon fouling finding its way into the chamber.

There are also continual improvements in bolt carrier groups, chambers, magazines, trigger packs, and even charging handles with specific geometries to reduce failure, and even improve ambidextrous usage.

Yes I would but have to agree that's a big stretch of the dictionary definition.