The Roles and Weapons with the Squad

[RJ]

"Originally Posted by William F. Owen
As a UK Infantryman, I have never understood, why the US Squad Leader is not part of a Fire team. Both the Army and Marines cling to this, for no good reason that I can see."

William with respect, as a former Marine Squad Leader I submit the following experiences by the Marine Corps as proof enough for we who have been there

Iwo Jima, Okniawa, The Chosin Resevoir, The Battle of Hue City, The March Up to Bagdad and Fallujah II.

The one up and two back configeration needs the guiding hand of a squad leader who has been brought up in this unit configeration to direct the flow of the fight in progress.

I sense some inability from a few that the size of the Marine Squad is to them too big to control in combat.

It isn't, if you have been trained from Private thru L/Cpl to Cpl. to respond in this invironment.

It works for the Marine Corps. When vertical envelopment began in the 50's the air assets could not carry more than 8 Marines. A perfect excuse to break down the big 13 man squads to "fit" the size of the transportation available.

Didn't Happen! I was a squad leader in that period and the decision was made to put the extra squad members on the next chopper to load. The division of the big squad may have been discussed up the chain of command but it was not even considered at the troop level. We liked the way a three fire team squad "flowed" in the assualt phase of our training. 4 man rushes supported by 8 man covering fire is a thing of beauty as it moves forward to close with the enemy.

The forward movement was not a single 4 man unit moving ahead while being supported by the two other fire teams. The assualting fire teams interchanged between assualt and support in coordinated fire team rushes that constantly moved forward. The 8 man support is powerful and can not be duplicated by a 9 man squad with four assualting and five supporting.

The economy of putting a squad leader in the dual role of SL and FTL in an 8 man squad reduces the power of the support base by 35%. As in 35% less rounds moving down range in supressing the enemy.

It , in my opinion, would be the worst of both worlds. A weak unit with a dual-role SL who in the heat of battle is going to fight his fire team and focus on that and not the other fire team.

A Marine SL has the training to focus on manuevering his three fireteams as the terrain and the quality of the enemy's troops and defenses will allow. He is not part of the "uuuunnnnngggg" stress of moving forward under fire,
and he can develop his part of the battlefield as the power of his bigger squad projects itself under his direction. He is under stress and exposed to enemy fire, for sure, but his job is to fight his three fire teams without the distraction of having to lay down the base of fire or jump up and rush at the enemy with three other Marines in the fire team. He is also in direct contact with his platoon leader and keeps him informed on his squads status.

In a smaller 8 man squad, fighting a fire team, commanding a squad and keeping those above us informed seems a bit much, to me.

Running a Marine Squad ain't easy, but it is easier than trying to take the same terrain with 4 to 5 less guns in the fight. Especially when your gun is needed in the fight, while you are trying to figure out what has to be done.

This commentary on the 8, 9 and 13 man squads on up to a 20 man squad has the ability to become the "never ending story".

I submit 6 decades of success in combat with a 13 man squad works for the Marines!

The tour of a Marine Expeditionary Units in Helmand Provience this year seemed to have worked quite well. 500 to 600 dead opponents and only a single civilian casualty and a handful of Marines killed or wounded might be a model to study and learn from.

Please don't think my commentary is a "my way or the highway" kind of chatter. I hope my comments explain the reason the Marines continue to use the big squad configeration.

William Owen, How long has the UK had your squad configeration? And what were the composition of the squads before your current size? What were the squad sizes in WWI?

Were they bigger than today? The huge losses in that war
must have influenced changes that are still being felt.