books on the Arab mindset

[wierdbeard]

Looking for books on the Arab mindset/thought process, i've seen may mixed reviews on books on Amazon but would like to know what is rec'd from the Anthropological, COIN, and of course the Intellgence side. Maybe a top three for each with a quick why?
-Thanks

[Jedburgh]

First off, there isn't really any all-encompassing "Arab mindset/thought process". (i.e. they are all associative rather than linear thinkers) There are plenty of decent general cultural awareness products that you can pull up with a simple search, but if you're looking for what I read into your statement, it ain't gonna answer the question.

Patai's book is often touted as the thing to read; you'll find plenty of substantive criticism and descriptions of the weaknesses of that work right on this board.

Just my unlettered opinion, but I feel you'll have better luck if you focus your search a bit tighter.

[wierdbeard]

thanks for the response, yes i am aware that i won't find an all encompassing book to cover it all, i have followed the threads on Patai's book but still am looking for more on the thought process in addition to that. Primarily my focus would be how to understand the mindset in places such as Afghanistan (the different tribes within), Pakistani vs Pathans in the border region, as well as the sunni vs shia mindset in Iraq - if there is a major difference other then the religious aspect. I do study culture religion and what i can find on the politics in the region. In a nutshell i'm looking for some varying resources that i can recommend to some of my Soldiers to help them prepare for some classes. I have gone through the BCKS forums but am also looking for sources other than whats found there.

[marct]

Hi Weirdbeard,

I've been looking around for general stuff for the past couple of months and, truthfully, most of it is very "surface". McCallister's little piece is quite decent for the Pashtun, but it doesn't really capture a lot of the highly sophisticated politicking that is influencing current reality. As far as "mindset" is concerned, the trick, IMO, is in the methodology not the product since the product will change along with the reality. Given the limitations you are under, I would recommend that you get hold of a copy of The Study of Culture at a Distance and check out part I. It's considered out of date by a long shot, but it may be your best option.

Marc

[Norfolk]

This isn't exactly what you're looking for weirdbeard, but in some ways this article may shed a little light on the subject matter - if you haven't already read this: Why Arabs Lose Wars: Fighting as you train, and the impact of culture on Arab military effectiveness, by Colonel Norvell B. De Atkine, U.S. Army (ret'd.), in American Diplomacy, Fall 2000 - Vol. V, No. 4.) This may, or may not, serve as a useful, if limited, adjunct to your research.

[William F. Owen]

As far as "mindset" is concerned, the trick, IMO, is in the methodology not the product since the product will change along with the reality.

I am not comfortable useing the term Arab, but this is how the question was couched.

My experience of "Arabs" is that they are a vastly diverse of folks but generally a significant number are hamstrung and crippled by popular sets of beliefs. From my own experience, but also from two friends of mine who speak Arabic but are not Arabists (VERY rare in my experience), they tend to adopt "Stories/ Narratives" as absolute fact. For example holocaust denial is very widespread in the Arab/Muslim world, as are conspiracy theories that most educated people would dismiss out of hand. These ideas are just as prevalent amongst doctors and teachers are they are taxi drivers. Education does not change the story.

I have never understood the reason for this, but it is definitely cultural. Now some say "oh but we are the same," and I have to point out, "Oh no we are not," and I see exactly the same problems in a lot of Asian cultures. Telling you what you want to hear is almost an absolute given. Straight talking is considered very rude, and unnecessary. - and just to put this in context, the Royal Thai Army could defeat the insurgency in the south, overnight, but they never will. The reason is nothing to do with training or money. They just choose not to do stuff known to work.

[marct]

Hi Wilf,

I am not comfortable useing the term Arab, but this is how the question was couched.

I'm not particularly happy or comfortable with it either - in all too many ways, it is a cop out and oversimplification . And I have to echo MountainRunner's unhappiness with the term "mindset" as well. "Arab" is closer to what some Anthropologists would call a "culture area"; sort of like when I talk about the Anglo Culture Complex (UK, US, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc.).

"Mindset" is a tricky term when applied to a population, which is how it was done in this question - the term actually works better when applied to individuals. Talk about an "Arab mindset" means that we are talking at a fairly gross population level, covering many different cultures and countries. There are some commonalities, as there are in the Anglo Culture Complex, but there is also a real danger that people will confuse the general (population) with the specific (individual).

My experience of "Arabs" is that they are a vastly diverse of folks but generally a significant number are hamstrung and crippled by popular sets of beliefs. From my own experience, but also from two friends of mine who speak Arabic but are not Arabists (VERY rare in my experience), they tend to adopt "Stories/ Narratives" as absolute fact. For example holocaust denial is very widespread in the Arab/Muslim world, as are conspiracy theories that most educated people would dismiss out of hand. These ideas are just as prevalent amongst doctors and teachers are they are taxi drivers. Education does not change the story.

I've been thinking a lot about this, Wilf. Personally, I don't think that this is unique by any means to the Arab/Muslm world (and they are different from each other). I do think that the prevalence has to do, in part, with the requirement to learn the Qu'ran in 7th century Arabic and, in part, with the implicit epistemology which defines "knowledge" via a study of the Qu'ran. Both the Qu'an and 7th century Arabic come out of a primary oral culture where "story-telling" is the way in which cultural negotiation takes place. While here is an application of what the West would call "logic" (cf any of al-Ghazali's work), this does not seem to be the primary form of "logic" applied to day to day living.

I have never understood the reason for this, but it is definitely cultural. Now some say "oh but we are the same," and I have to point out, "Oh no we are not," and I see exactly the same problems in a lot of Asian cultures. Telling you what you want to hear is almost an absolute given. Straight talking is considered very rude, and unnecessary. - and just to put this in context, the Royal Thai Army could defeat the insurgency in the south, overnight, but they never will. The reason is nothing to do with training or money. They just choose not to do stuff known to work.

Wilf, I think we are the same, but that we operate on different epistemological forms and with different assumptions about the nature of reality. Then again, that's something to talk about over beers . I've had a fair number of students from both Arab and Asian cultures (and boy do I hate using that generality ), and my observations match your own. In many of these cultures, as you note, "strait talking" is an insult to the listener - it implies that you are too stupid to understand. At least in many academic disciplines, it also implies that you are not only stupid, but incompetent as well, which is one of the reasons many students from the ME and Asia do not use references.

What I have always found intriguing is that every one of the cultures also has a set of, hmmm, call it "character roles", which is much closer to what the West considers to be "normal". It gets interesting figuring out which of these roles to assume in order to create a different persona amongst your students .

Marc

[Rank amateur]

II see exactly the same problems in a lot of Asian cultures. Telling you what you want to hear is almost an absolute given. Straight talking is considered rude.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, reminds me of Alabama. I've never been knifed in the back more politely than in Alabama.

[MountainRunner]

I'm also not comfortable with "mindset", however...

A book I suggest is a little referenced text by the Arab Machiavelli, a Sicilian Arab Muslim by the name of Muhammad ibn Zafar al-Siqilli. Writing 350 years before the Florentine, his book Sulwan al-Muta' Fi 'Udwan al-Atba' (Consolation for the Ruler During the Hostility of Subjects) is remarkably similar to The Prince but with differences (sometimes significant) in the means even if the ends are close to the same.

The English text is by Joseph A. Kechichian and R. Hrair Dekmejian's, The Just Prince: A Manual of Leadership, and includes some comparisons to Machiavelli.

[William F. Owen]

I'm also not comfortable with "mindset", however...

A book I suggest is a little referenced text by the Arab Machiavelli, a Sicilian Arab Muslim by the name of Muhammad ibn Zafar al-Siqilli. Writing 350 years before the Florentine, his book Sulwan al-Muta' Fi 'Udwan al-Atba' (Consolation for the Ruler During the Hostility of Subjects) is remarkably similar to The Prince but with differences (sometimes significant) in the means even if the ends are close to the same.

The English text is by Joseph A. Kechichian and R. Hrair Dekmejian's, The Just Prince: A Manual of Leadership, and includes some comparisons to Machiavelli.

Excellent. Being a devotee of Niccolo, I really look forward to this. Many thanks

[arty8]

I got back from a tour in Iraq a couple of months ago and by far the most useful book I read before I left was "The arab mind considered" by John Laffin. Although published in the 1970's it described exactly the mindset I would work with for a year. Most westerners just don't understand that Arabs think differently from most other cultures, most especially american.