Training Fieldcraft

[Tom Odom]

Wow talk about return to earlier days. This will make the "Bambi is a person too" crowd really happy

Teaching Marines to be like hunters



Unorothodox war training emphasizes 'primal skills'By Rick Rogers
February 29, 2008

Trying to become predators instead of prey, Marines headed to Iraq will go through training built on advice from big-game hunters, soldiers of fortune and troops who grew up around firearms in the woods or the inner city.

Marines took part in a Combat Hunter training exercise yesterday at Camp Pendleton, where a mock Iraqi police officer was shot down in a simulated Iraqi village.

After the training scenario, 55 Marines gathered for a debriefing by Greg Williams, a former police officer and big-game hunter.

The "body" of a mock Iraqi police officer shot by an enemy sniper was carried off during an exercise for the Combat Hunter program, which is training troops to unleash deadly force only after determining it is warranted.
Combat Hunter, a program begun at Camp Pendleton and now being rolled out nationwide, is designed to help Marines stalk and kill insurgents by using their senses and instincts. It emphasizes keen observation of Marines' surroundings and meticulous knowledge of their foes' habits.

[slapout9]

Hi Tom can you check the link? I don't think it is working.

[Tom Odom]

Hi Tom can you check the link? I don't think it is working.

Thanks mate. Fixed!

[selil]

Can I use my bow? And if Tinks brings in Bambi what brings in the bad guys? Beer? I really doubt they are teaching anybody to fox walk but all soldiers should be exposed to real field craft at some point.

[Ron Humphrey]

How the only part I saw about learning how to determine when to and not to attack was almost hidden Everything else seemed to focus on the idea of how to make a natural born killer. Are we sure thats not almost the opposite of what the intent is?

[selil]

How the only part I saw about learning how to determine when to and not to attack was almost hidden Everything else seemed to focus on the idea of how to make a natural born killer. Are we sure thats not almost the opposite of what the intent is?

It looks like they are teaching observational skills more than woodcraft. Watching to see who the actors are from afar and then bring in the pain. I think (don't know for sure) the term is "observational sociology" what the sociologists do when they are watching behaviors in the real world only at a tactical versus research level. I'm not sure though the article doesn't include much on the actual training.

[Van]

Although BSA doesn't like to admit the military connection, Baden-Powell retired from the British Army at the request of the King (when a field marshall's baton was still a distinct possibility for him) to energize Boys Scouts. All the city kids with no fieldcraft joining the army was worrying (understandably) the Crown. (And "Aids to Scouting for NCOs and Men" by B-P is still worth reading.)

Marines headed to Iraq will go through training built on advice from ... troops who grew up around firearms in the woods or the inner city.

The inner city piece is interesting, but makes perfect sense. A kid from the sticks of Alabama might know how to hunt, but does not have the visceral understanding of how gangs work that a kid from the NYC projects would. What's going on in Baghdad looks more like the Crips and the Bloods than anything else I can compare it to.

[Boot]

back in the 80's, stressing many of the same things; They were called LICEX's. Low Intensity Conflict Exercises. Now we didn't have gang Cops teaching techniques, we did have former gangbangers.

[jcustis]

I thought the premise of the program was BS too when I first heard about it, and then I had to help send Marines to it! I failed to get feedback from the students before they were sucked up into pre-deploy actions, but it tends to make sense that we are coming back to some things that may seem utterly common sense.

There used to be basic tracking lanes at the schoolhouses that produced infantrymen, but that went away sometime after I attended in 1993. I do not know if the training has returned, but combat tracking has certainly come into vogue to a degree as well.

[Rhodesian]

Sirs

My own experience with genuine field craft would suggest that this is instinctive, and "town boys" very rarely have it, despite the best training available.

I wonder if anyone has read the book "Mark of the Warrior"? Based on British action against the Japanese during WWII, it portrays the problem of "instinct", or rather the lack of it. I apologise if this sounds arrogant, but if you dont know what its like for the insects to "talk" to you, you havent got "it".

I.R

[William F. Owen]

My own experience with genuine field craft would suggest that this is instinctive, and "town boys" very rarely have it, despite the best training available.

I'm not sure I'd agree totally, but you have the bones of a good point, and I'd certainly defer to your experience. I know a good few "Wiltshire" farm boys who stood-to a whole platoon harbour because they couldn't recognise the sound of badger foraging at night.

I'd also say that, from a UK perspective, city boys (and I am not one) tend to make good modern soldiers. If you want technical proficiency, then a British Army member of the Kings Regiment, knew about 62 good ways to steal any car, and the 1st Battalion Royal Green Jackets were pretty good a bank robberies.

...that aside, I am somewhat sceptical as of the lording and deification of "Hiawatha" skills, because the gap between useful and good is vast. I think the majority of what is useful, can be taught and learnt by experience. Providing that training and experience is obviously key.

Urban environments often need to be "read" just as proficiently as rural. EG> "Is that Abdul Badguy's wife just taking out the garbage of is she checking the coast is clear." "Is that guy on the roof just taking some air or is he a look out." etc etc etc. Sorry to bang on with the obvious but I hope this helps.

[120mm]

Honestly, talent has a lot to do with it.

I would take a "city boy" who is also an outdoors enthusiast, against a "country boy" who doesn't care for the outdoors, any day. I grew up basically out of doors, in the country, but I have an aptitude for woodsmanship. My peers, growing up, had a similar background, but most of them were "duds" in the woods.