The Emerging "Neocon" Alibi on Iraq

[Tom Odom]

Instead, we blundered into an ill-conceived occupation that would facilitate a deadly insurgency from which we, and the Iraqis, are only now emerging. With misplaced confidence that we knew better than the Iraqis, we sent an American to govern Iraq. L. Paul Bremer underestimated the task, but did his best to make a foolish policy work. I had badly underestimated the administration’s capacity to mess things up.

From Richard Perle whom I respect less than the gun toting Mall Ninja. Mr. Perle in contrast to the Mall Minja has never carried a gun and has seen less action than our wannabe warrior mall security guard.

To the Ninja's credit, he does not use the term "we" when he really means "you" as Mssr Perle does here as a ploy to avoid personal responsibility by sharing blame. In contrast, Mr. Perle has never had a problem using "I" when things go right. In using it in the above paragraph, he patronizingly glib in dismissing his own role as if he had merely suggested a bad play for a local softball team.

What an ass..

Tom

[SteveMetz]

From Richard Perle whom I respect less than the gun toting Mall Ninja. Mr. Perle in contrast to the Mall Minja has never carried a gun and has seen less action than our wannabe warrior mall security guard.

To the Ninja's credit, he does not use the term "we" when he really means "you" as Mssr Perle does here as a ploy to avoid personal responsibility by sharing blame. In contrast, Mr. Perle has never had a problem using "I" when things go right. In using it in the above paragraph, he patronizingly glib in dismissing his own role as if he had merely suggested a bad play for a local softball team.

What an ass..

Tom

I find Perle less nauseating than Feith. Perle advocated just throwing the keys to Iraq to Chalabi and beating feet. I think that would have been immoral and a disaster, but at least he can credibly make a case that the Bush administration did not follow his advice. Feith, on the other hand, is trying to foist off responsibility for actions he DID have a hand in on other organizations and individuals. If by some miracle things work out in Iraq, I can easily imagine Feith then taking credit for the decisions.

[davidbfpo]

Rewriting history this side of the Atlantic has yet to appear, largely as Gordon Brown's government is trying to ignore Tony Blair's leadership. Few I think here will be brave enough to publically say "We were right to invade". Many of the politicians involved have left the limelight.

The impact of how intelligence is used to persaude the public may have a longer shelf life; many commentators here say the legacy of the Iraq invasion means the public will remain sceptical, if not hostile to intelligence.

Side issues, like the mysterious death or suicide of Dr David Kelly, a government scientist deeply involved in disarming Iraq, who spoke out of turn to the BBC, arouse some attention and a book on the subject is in it's fourth impression (since late 2007).

davidbfpo

[SteveMetz]

Rewriting history this side of the Atlantic has yet to appear, largely as Gordon Brown's government is trying to ignore Tony Blair's leadership. Few I think here will be brave enough to publically say "We were right to invade". Many of the politicians involved have left the limelight.

The impact of how intelligence is used to persaude the public may have a longer shelf life; many commentators here say the legacy of the Iraq invasion means the public will remain sceptical, if not hostile to intelligence.

Side issues, like the mysterious death or suicide of Dr David Kelly, a government scientist deeply involved in disarming Iraq, who spoke out of turn to the BBC, arouse some attention and a book on the subject is in it's fourth impression (since late 2007).

davidbfpo

I gave a talk on insurgency week before last at the Royal College of Defence Studies and was surprised at how little interest there was in Iraq. All they wanted to talk about was Afghanistan. Iraq seems to be purely history.

[J Wolfsberger]

Perle is out of the generation of cold warriors, with a world view shaped by that "competition." How much do you think that experience, in him and others, is shaping our current policy? i.e. Is this group that is referred to as "Neocons" shaped by strong experience that required a hard line in a competition of ideologies?

[SteveMetz]

Perle is out of the generation of cold warriors, with a world view shaped by that "competition." How much do you think that experience, in him and others, is shaping our current policy? i.e. Is this group that is referred to as "Neocons" shaped by strong experience that required a hard line in a competition of ideologies?

IMO, the problem is that people like Perle and Norman Podhoretz whose entire psyche has been was shaped by struggle against an evil enemy have simply shifted fire to "Islamofascism" (which I personally consider a nonsense word, at least the way they use it). Problem is that the notion of World War III or IV which they promote resonates with a lot of Americans, particularly but not exclusively evangelical conservatives.

I was relieved that Guiliani's defeat showed that as we move further from September 11, receptivity to this idea is declining. I don't think there is enough distance that whoever is president can come right out and reject it, but hopefully they can stop comparing the threat from Islamic militants to the the threat from the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany. I am worried, though, that this group might become involved in the McCain campaign. But I think he's independent enough to make up his own mind rather than being seduced by misguided advisors.

[Tom Odom]

Rewriting history this side of the Atlantic has yet to appear, largely as Gordon Brown's government is trying to ignore Tony Blair's leadership. Few I think here will be brave enough to publically say "We were right to invade". Many of the politicians involved have left the limelight.

davidbfpo

But Mssr Perle will

We made mistakes in Iraq, but war was just
By Richard Perle
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 16/03/2008

For a government fighting an unpopular war, five years is an eternity. In the sight of history, it's just a blink, far too short for considered judgment or a balanced accounting. But judges and accountants won't wait, so the fifth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq has renewed the debate about that action and its consequences - a debate dominated by the terrible costs, with almost no assessment of the benefits.

Amazing but not surprising that 5 years can be dismissed as somehow irrelevant without a blink or a hiccup..

[Steve Blair]

And this has a long-standing history in American politics. Vietnam had its many examples, as has just about every conflict we've been involved in. No reason to suspect that Iraq would be any different, especially since our political machine is self-selecting in terms of who it lets through the rusty gates.

Marc, I think it was Hitler's machine that really perfected the "Big Lie." Goebbles in particular was a master of it; first for the Strassers in Berlin and later for ol' Adi himself down Munich way.

[Tom Odom]

Marc, I think it was Hitler's machine that really perfected the "Big Lie." Goebbles in particular was a master of it; first for the Strassers in Berlin and later for ol' Adi himself down Munich way.

Steve

I believe you are correct. Big Lie has been a staple of the Hutu Power movement since the end of the genocide in Rwanda.

Tom

[marct]

Hi Steve,

Marc, I think it was Hitler's machine that really perfected the "Big Lie." Goebbles in particular was a master of it; first for the Strassers in Berlin and later for ol' Adi himself down Munich way.

They certainly did a great job of it . Personally, I think Trotsky perfected the theory of it even earlier (aided by Lenin or vice versa depending on who published first ). Still and all, the tactic itself is quite old - take a look at Ramesses II and his spin on Kadesh .