The SC-MAGTF

[TROUFION]

New Marine Corps operating concept: the Security Cooperation Marine Air Ground Task Force and Naval GLobal Fleet Stations the new pillar capability added to outfit the Marine Corps for the "long war".

I know it was breifly brought up in another thread a few weeks ago but I couldn't find it again. However I do not believe their has been a discussion.

A conventionally based and focused Marine Inf Bn Reinforced with a logisitics element and aviation element with additional capbilities of CA, Intel, MP, LE, Medical, and liaisons from/with DOS, Agriculture, Commerce. Operating dispersed across a wide AO interacting with predeployed Advisors in order to Build Host Nation Capacity and foster Civ-Mil and Mil-Mil relations. With the ability to "reaggregate" for disater relief, NEO, or Full Spectrum combat operations in conjunction with Naval predeployed Amphib and Combatant forces.

Sounds great to me. What does the panel think?

http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/200...n-the-marin-1/

http://www.smallwarsjournal.com/docu...themarines.pdf

[davidbfpo]

This idea would work if the trouble spots were small, like Grenada, but what if it is Sierra Leone? Seems like an ink spot strategy. How about using the concept as a civil and military training team, like the once lauded BMATT, er in Zimbabwe?

Sounds nice, even better inside the Beltway and in reality a poor choice.

From my armchair.

davidbfpo

[COMMAR]

This idea would work if the trouble spots were small, like Grenada, but what if it is Sierra Leone? Seems like an ink spot strategy. How about using the concept as a civil and military training team, like the once lauded BMATT, er in Zimbabwe?

Sounds nice, even better inside the Beltway and in reality a poor choice.

From my armchair.

davidbfpo

This action is already being done and has already been done on a not so coherent basis at least since 2000.

To get a good Idea of how it would look you have to look at Deployments like Unitas, WATC, & LF CARAT.

In these deployments a composite MAGTF Detachment of Marines based around an Inf Comp. deploys to multiple countries conducting various operations from Bi & Multi-Lateral training to Civil Projects and Security Contingency Ops.

I think many ppl are over complicating the deployment.

Its a very simple deployment that Marines are very accustomed to. Just now part of a more cohesive & coherent Strategy.

[COMMAR]

Also I think its difficult for guys fr/ other services to understand Marine Deployment cycles.

With or without the GWOT Marine units cycle thru work-up & deployment periods whether its the MEU(SOC), UDP, or UNITAS/WATC/LFCARAT. So there are always going to be a # of BNs tied up in the work-up cycle.

Also there aren't particular units designated SC units. Just like the MEU(SOC) all BNs will cycle thru a SC MAGTF deployment cycle and move on to a different cycle upon completion of that one.

Regimental HQs will be designated x-region to specialize in, but this will mostly come into play Pre-Deployment during the workup phase, and in facilitating whichever Inf. Comp-Dets are deployed in there regions fr/ the US almost like a Mini-Theater Command; however without tactical control.

[Boot]

I think what no one is realizing or even aware of is Marine Corps Training and Advisory Group (MCTAG), and what their role is. An exert;

MCTAG's mission;
"Provide conventional training and advisor support to Host Nation Security Forces(HNSF) or to GENERAL PURPOSE FORCES PARTNERING WITH HNSF (read: SC MAGTF)
IOT...."

Its not mentioned but I do know MCTAG's focus is FID/coin (note coin in lowercase as its not the center of gravity but in many cases goes hand in hand with FID). It was stressed to me that they ARE NOT SF. Now if someone can tell me the difference in the execution of advising or FID/coin from a MSOAG or ODA TEAM, please let me know, I think there is probably not much difference. When I worked w/ MiTT's in Iraq, the some of the best MiTT Team Leaders were SF Major's who elected to do MiTT's. One in particular who had spent 10 years w/ 5th and 7th Group, told me that being a MiTT Team Leader was the purest "SF" mission he has ever done. He had a good team, but since the were all regular Army (except his 18E) they were ready to quit by the 10th month in Baghdad. My point is that FID/coin isn't something limited to SF but certainly SF (Army ODA teams) have been doing this for the last 40 years, and they know a thing or two about it. I think FID/coin can be executed by other forces who aren't SF types BUT as I witnessed first hand in Iraq, not every Soldier/Marine is cut out for that sort of mission. What will be key for an organization such as MCTAG and SC MAGTF are the people entrusted w/ this mission. Quality over quantity and the training given to them. There is a good chapter in OP 19 (Ch 13) written by a couple of folks who outlined what FMTU selection should consist of. You could be an outstanding DA type but that doesn't mean you are cut out to be an adviser. MCTAG is suppossed to be the glue that ties SC MAGTF to these nations. MCTAG teams are on the ground when SC MAGTF shows up and still there when they leave. It is also outlined in the "Long War Concept" by Gen Conway.
Also I think we have been doing the SC MAGTF for years as someone pointed out. Out here in III MEF, we send Marines all over the far east to do everything from training with HNSF to building roads, schools and hospitals. We also do immunizations and other medical/dental functions.






Sorry to ramble on.

SF

[CaptCav_CoVan]

As a former Marine Officer who was involved with the first CAP at Phu Bai, and later served as an advisor (Co Van) with Tony Zinni and Joe Hoar to the Vietnamese Marines after going thru the SF-taught 6-week MATA course at JFKSWC. More recently, I worked with SCETC to develop a curriculum for training advisors, and served7 months in Iraq as an advisor to the advisors (se Jan 2008 Marine Corps Gazette article), and helped revise the curriculum for the Phoenix Academy to make it more Iraq-system oriemnted. Frankly, after talking with Boot, I am still confused about MCTAG's mission. We have SCETC, who trains advisors, MARSOC, who trains advisors, and now MCTAG, who will train advisors, plus we send Marinesto the SF school. John Nagl has proposed a 20,000-man Army Advisor Group, and I have suggested to General Mttis, General Conway and others that we should conisder a Corps-wide Marine Advisory Unit, about 5,000 men, with primary or secondary MOS designation and a career path for promotion. It would involve specializing in a langauage and a culture, similar to the SF Groups, and would involve management consulting, capacity devlopment, military government, and State Deprtment and NGO liasion in addition to military skills. Thoughts?

[CR6]

liaisons from/with DOS, Agriculture, Commerce

Where does the funding for the interagency folks come from, and are they with the SC-MAGTF for the entire train-up and deployment?

Does it operate in addition to, in lieu of or as part of a MEU-SOC?

What's the rotation schedule? Does the concept tie up a regiment's worth of Bns with one training-up, one on float, and one standing down?

Is the idea to have a certain number of these organizations, each with if different geographical/cultural/language orientation? If so, how many SC-MAGTF's are required?

The idea is interesting to mull over, but there's a lot of questions to be addressed.

[TROUFION]

Gents I can only ask that you read through the Attached Pamphlet --The Long War, Send in the Marines. It can answer your questions far better than I could.

http://www.smallwarsjournal.com/docu...themarines.pdf

But to summarize:

27 Inf Bn's total. 18 conducting full spectrum training. 9 foward deployed--3 UDP/3 MEU/ 3 SC MAGTF. Giving the Corps a 1:2 deployed to dwell (recovery & refit) rotation.

The SC -MAGTF is task organized around an Inf Bn. Prepared for Full spectrum operations. Optimized for Security Cooperation. Deploys to a Forward Operating Site (like Rota Spain) and sends out detachments throughout a designated AOR. Available for re-aggregation and redeployment to meet contingencies. This is and remains a General Purpose Force.

The SC-MAGTF expands the Corps capabilites into the lower end of the expeditionary force spectrum to increase and sustain forward presence, while retaining the ability to reorient for more traditional missions. It is NOT a replacement for the MEU. It is a seperate entity but capable of working with and or in support of the MEU, or to be reassigned to a MEB or MEF for larger operations. The SC-MAGTF will be tied into the Naval GFS to facilitate operations with amphibs, HSV's and MSC shipping to provide forward presence via seabasing. It is considered Distributed Operations.

Distributed operations meaning-general purpose forces, operating with deliberate dispersion, where necessary and tactically prudent , with de-centralized decsion-making consistent with commander's intent to achieve specific advantages over an enemy. A technique applied to an appropriate situation wherein units are seperated beyond the limits of mutual support. When facing irregular forces or forces operating in complex terrain, distributed operations allow the commander to expand his area of influence. During Security cooperation the decentralized action will permit wider, more diverse application of power and influence. This same capability can be leveraged to enable rapid re-aggregation or reinforcement where military power projection must be quickly applied.

[Rob Thornton]

I think you have to consider it as a capability a Service provider brings to the table. Its not a panacea, but it is a capability.

I think it fits the Marines because like the MAGTF its modeled on, its scalable, and it plays to their strong suit. If the other services come up with their own answers, be they a BCT that has a regional focus and gets told that for 6 months they will work with country X to improve Y capabilities in their security forces, or an USAF "Out-Back" AF component that improves a HN's air forces, or a USN or USCG element working to help a HN improve their ability to combat piracy, they all bring capabilities to the GCC that he can use to meet policy objectives.

There is no one element that is going to do all of this - and as we've seen in certain conditions we have to address additional needed capabilities and/or capacity with Ad-Hoc solutions that might look different from whatever becomes normal, what is important is that we understand the capabilities the services put forward and employ them in a Joint and/or Inter-Agency context that is consistent withe the conditions and the ends we are trying to achieve.

I'd say good on the Marine Corps Leadership for recognizing the need, for realizing that their Marines are capable of doing this mission when given the resources, and doing it in a manner that addresses operational and strategic risk.

Best, Rob