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Thread: So I Started Reading the Feith Book...

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    Council Member SteveMetz's Avatar
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    Default So I Started Reading the Feith Book...

    ...as much as it bugged me to put money in his pocket, given that I'm working on an OIF decisionmaking project and will be doing interviews after my book comes out, I need to know what's in it. I'm only 30 pages in it--it's articulate and well-written, but I can already see the seeds being sowed for the "stab in the back" argument.

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    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMetz View Post
    ...as much as it bugged me to put money in his pocket, given that I'm working on an OIF decisionmaking project and will be doing interviews after my book comes out, I need to know what's in it. I'm only 30 pages in it--it's articulate and well-written, but I can already see the seeds being sowed for the "stab in the back" argument.
    That's why you use libraries, Steve.... Read the book without giving him a thin dime.
    "On the plains and mountains of the American West, the United States Army had once learned everything there was to learn about hit-and-run tactics and guerrilla warfare."
    T.R. Fehrenbach This Kind of War

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    Council Member SteveMetz's Avatar
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    Libraries seem so....socialistic. I prefer to own the means of production.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMetz View Post
    Libraries seem so....socialistic. I prefer to own the means of production.
    In this particular case, wouldn't that be the means of obfuscation?

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMetz View Post
    Libraries seem so....socialistic. I prefer to own the means of production.
    Tsk, tsk - I thought you folks got rid of slavery, Steve? I mean, after all, Feith produced the book, so it is only logical to view him as the means of production .

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
    In this particular case, wouldn't that be the means of obfuscation?
    Not at all, Rex! I'm shocked (but not "appalled" ) that you would think so! After seeing him on that 60 minutes interview, I am firmly of the opinion that he has had a Road to Damascus type of conversion experience and is now solidly in the Green Party / Earth First camp. After all, he has produced such an amazingly large amount of organic fertilizer....
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
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    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    MarcT: Not at all, Rex! I'm shocked (but not "appalled" ) that you would think so! After seeing him on that 60 minutes interview, I am firmly of the opinion that he has had a Road to Damascus type of conversion experience and is now solidly in the Green Party / Earth First camp. After all, he has produced such an amazingly large amount of organic fertilizer....
    that would be Feith-based "intelligence" and associated higher-level thought...

    He is articulate; so was Jim Jones. No wonder GEN Franks liked him so much

    Tom

    PS

    Steve please read each word twice and that will count for me...

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Default Hehe

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    that would be Feith-based "intelligence" and associated higher-level thought...

    He is articulate; so was Jim Jones. No wonder GEN Franks liked him so much
    That's the trouble we have with some of your accents! And I always thought Bush was talking about faith-based initiatives ! Oh, well.

    BTW, I was doing a little chatting with some friends, and they mentioned that they had seen a vision of Feith and sent the link.
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member SteveMetz's Avatar
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    You people are just MEAN

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    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMetz View Post
    You people are just MEAN
    I know but we are GOOD at being mean

    here is another bit from yet another beacon of higher intellect:

    Inside the Ring

    Feith Speaks:
    ...For example, Mr. Feith criticizes former Secretary of State Colin Powell and former Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage for the failure of diplomacy in the lead-up to the 2003 invasion.

    Mr. Feith said Mr. Powell did not make any speeches in France or Germany as part of efforts to win support from those countries, and failed to win Turkey's backing for a northern invasion route into Iraq, which seriously hampered the war effort.
    And that would be after the SecDef dismissed said countries as "Old Europe"...

    Now drink your Koolaid, read some more, and take a nice nap...

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    Council Member Stan's Avatar
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    Amazon already has 14 used books available, saving nearly 40%

    Must be a quick read
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

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    Default Plea from the ignorant

    While the level of repartee and rapier-like wit is gratifying...really, it's like having a seat at the Algonquin Round Table...could someone give us ignorant folks a paragraph or two on what exactly makes Mr. Feith the dastardly ignoramus he appears to be?

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    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eden View Post
    While the level of repartee and rapier-like wit is gratifying...really, it's like having a seat at the Algonquin Round Table...could someone give us ignorant folks a paragraph or two on what exactly makes Mr. Feith the dastardly ignoramus he appears to be?
    Try here as a start...

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Eden,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eden View Post
    While the level of repartee and rapier-like wit is gratifying...really, it's like having a seat at the Algonquin Round Table...could someone give us ignorant folks a paragraph or two on what exactly makes Mr. Feith the dastardly ignoramus he appears to be?
    Some of it comes from the fact that he was one of the primary architects of the push to invade Iraq and is now attempting to blame everything that went wrong on other people. Basically, he is taking no responsibility for his actions at all. What is even worse, at least for me, is that he seems to have convinced himself that he is not to blame - either that or he is an excellent liar (which is possible...). At best, he is self-deluded and, as with many charismatic ideologues, invites others to share in that delusion.
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    Hi Eden,



    Some of it comes from the fact that he was one of the primary architects of the push to invade Iraq and is now attempting to blame everything that went wrong on other people. Basically, he is taking no responsibility for his actions at all. What is even worse, at least for me, is that he seems to have convinced himself that he is not to blame - either that or he is an excellent liar (which is possible...). At best, he is self-deluded and, as with many charismatic ideologues, invites others to share in that delusion.
    Now there you go, Marc, being nice again....

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Now there you go, Marc, being nice again....
    Sorry, Tom... Just one of those Canadian cultural things (along with politeness, helping little old ladies across the street, and lampooning politicians).
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member SteveMetz's Avatar
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    I'm only 70 pages or so in, but I've noticed that Feith keeps stating over and over that in the weeks after September 11, the administration decided the enemy was a "network," not an organization. It's pretty easy to see where this is going--it's setting the stage for a defense of the Iraq decision.

    But my initial thought is that pretty much everyone who has analyzed how one destroys a network focuses on the need to identify and neutralize critical nodes. I'm anxious to see the logic that makes Iraq a critical node in the transnational terrorist network.

    Now, nose back to the grindstone....

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    Groundskeeping Dept. SWCAdmin's Avatar
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    I heard his rap on the Diane Rehm show, a DC area NPR affiliate. Here's the page, there's a link there to an audio feed.

    She poked him in the eyes a couple of times. He's deft with his spin, has his story, is sticking to it. Remarkable how prescient he comes off in his telling.

    I hope no one on the bus got hurt when it bumped over Powell.

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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMetz View Post
    But my initial thought is that pretty much everyone who has analyzed how one destroys a network focuses on the need to identify and neutralize critical nodes.
    As you know, I do not subscribe to any of the impedimenta proselytised in the new theories of war, such as networks,

    ...but my understanding of such gobbledegook was that you attacked the linkages between the nodes and not the nodes themselves, as the power of the "network" is in the linking mechanism. If not, then the nodes are merely "layers" in a hierarchy.

    ...now back to the book written by some guy called S. Metz
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Not quite Wilf,

    A network system that is tightly coupled like a hiearchy, political hegemony, or military social network if you attack the connectors then the nodes will faill. Imagine cutting command and control and you get the idea.

    If the network is loosely coupled the network connections may be loosely coupled and the nodes themselves are the point to attack. In cell networks the coupling may be one direction and one to many. Cutting the network connections will have little effect.

    In loosely coupled social networks (especially) the nodes may not all be of the same importance and they can be disturbed or placed into an instable state by interupting critical points. This is true if there is a primary ideological focus, it is very true if there is a financial or social capital focus, and in the case of social movements thought leaders can become the critical locus.
    Sam Liles
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    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen
    ......but my understanding of such gobbledegook was that you attacked the linkages between the nodes and not the nodes themselves, as the power of the "network" is in the linking mechanism. If not, then the nodes are merely "layers" in a hierarchy....
    The key term is critical nodes.

    Eliminating a link between identified operational elements (e.g. the cut-out is the link, the agent is one node and the handler is another) results in only temporary disruption of that part of the network. Whether you capture or kill the individual acting as a physical cut-out, or shut down the website acting as a virtual cut-out, its the same thing - both can be replaced without significant effort.

    Eliminating the agent is also just a temp disruption. Another can be recruited, and handlers tend to run intel cells in parallel, just for that contingency - as well for corroboration of information.

    The critical node in this simplistic example is the handler. Eliminate him and the entire intel network he had running is done; capture him and there is significant potential of not only rolling up his net, but of attacking higher in the network.

    This same basic principle described for the intel cell holds for logistics and operational cells, and for the network as a whole. Destroying links only temporarily disrupts the network. Identifying and eliminating critical nodes is how you eventually destroy the network.

    However, in practice, when dealing with a group that competently structures its clandestine organization, you are often forced to settle for the temporary disruptions and hope that the information gleaned eventually leads to effective targeting of critical nodes for destruction. It is a long and painstaking process - unless you get incredibly lucky.

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