Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Choosing War: The Decision to Invade Iraq and Its Aftermath

  1. #1
    Council Member SteveMetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Carlisle, PA
    Posts
    1,488

    Default Choosing War: The Decision to Invade Iraq and Its Aftermath

    This new monograph by former DASD Joe Collins is likely to cause a firestorm. Just printed it but haven't read it yet. I wish I'd had this and the Feith book before I finished my own. Oh well!

  2. #2
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    West Point New York
    Posts
    268

    Default

    Thanks for posting this; very important. I skimmed it but will read it closely over the next few days.

    gg

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default

    This is a great Occasional paper. For pro-military and or conservatives it may not be what you want to hear but it is based on fact and apparently well reasearched and documented; coming from the War College we should expect as much. In true military fashion, it is an honest evaluation of the Iraq invasion and provides great levels of detail on the plans and rationale leading to the war as well as its' prosecution. I particularly like this segement of text:

    "To date, the war in Iraq is a classic case of failure to adopt and adapt
    prudent courses of action that balance ends, ways, and means. After the
    major combat operation, U.S. policy has been insolvent, with inadequate
    means for pursuing ambitious ends. It is also a case where the perceived
    illegitimacy of our policy has led the United States to bear a disproportionate
    share of the war’s burden. U.S. efforts in Iraq stand in stark
    contrast to the war in Afghanistan, where, to the surprise of many, U.S.
    friends and allies have recently taken up a larger share of the burden of
    that conflict. Afghanistan has become the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s
    (NATO’s) war, but the war in Iraq has increasingly become only a
    U.S. and Iraqi struggle. The British drawdown in Basra in the summer of
    2007 heightened the isolation of the U.S. and Iraqi governments."

    The author is very critical of "policy" rather than the executors of the policy, the military. I agree with the failure to adopt and adapt at the national level. At the operational level and below I think our units are doing this very thing; granted it took a while. At any rate this is a great analytical paper that really cause you to think and likely reevaluate your stance on the situation in Iraq.

  4. #4
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Megalopolis
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Kuester View Post
    This is a great Occasional paper. For pro-military and or conservatives it may not be what you want to hear but it is based on fact and apparently well reasearched and documented; coming from the War College we should expect as much. In true military fashion, it is an honest evaluation of the Iraq invasion and provides great levels of detail on the plans and rationale leading to the war as well as its' prosecution. I particularly like this segement of text:

    "To date, the war in Iraq is a classic case of failure to adopt and adapt prudent courses of action that balance ends, ways, and means. After the major combat operation, U.S. policy has been insolvent, with inadequate means for pursuing ambitious ends. It is also a case where the perceived illegitimacy of our policy has led the United States to bear a disproportionate share of the war’s burden. U.S. efforts in Iraq stand in stark contrast to the war in Afghanistan, where, to the surprise of many, U.S.
    friends and allies have recently taken up a larger share of the burden of that conflict. Afghanistan has become the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s (NATO’s) war, but the war in Iraq has increasingly become only a U.S. and Iraqi struggle. The British drawdown in Basra in the summer of 2007 heightened the isolation of the U.S. and Iraqi governments."

    The author is very critical of "policy" rather than the executors of the policy, the military. I agree with the failure to adopt and adapt at the national level. At the operational level and below I think our units are doing this very thing; granted it took a while. At any rate this is a great analytical paper that really cause you to think and likely reevaluate your stance on the situation in Iraq.
    Regarding the "illegitimacy of our policy"...

    We do not choose war, war & similar entropic effects are part of nature; the second law of thermodynamics & Newtonian Physics.

    Jesus Christ said (There will be wars & rumours of wars until the end of the age).

    You see the liberal temptation; make a liar out of the Saviour & destroy the USA, kill two birds with one stone. I'm sure they'd love that.

    So in a very real way we never choose war, it chose us & is a part of human imperfection. It is in how we acknowledge this reality & live with it that we dedine ourselves. We can be ignorrant, cowardly or dutiful; the choice is yours.....
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 12-16-2008 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Tidy up spacing

  5. #5
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Regarding the "illegitimacy of our policy"...

    We do not choose war, war & similar entropic effects are part of nature; the second law of thermodynamics & Newtonian Physics.

    Jesus Christ said (There will be wars & rumours of wars until the end of the age).
    Bullmoose,

    Be careful cherry-picking to make points. "percieved" was in front of that quote.

    As for the lecture on choosing war versus nature, physics and religion, that may be interesting in speaking of general terms. In this case, the Bush Administration chose war.

  6. #6
    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Good to see you on here Sean!

    Niel
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
    Who is Cavguy?

  7. #7
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavguy View Post
    Good to see you on here Sean!

    Niel
    Hey mate

    A SGM Wyatt told me to tell you hello

    Tom

  8. #8
    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    Posts
    1,127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Hey mate

    A SGM Wyatt told me to tell you hello

    Tom
    SGM Wyatt was my 1SG for 14 months. He has all the dirt on me. I pay him to keep quiet!

    A tremendous NCO who shoots straight and kept me out of trouble (mostly) as a CO. He was so good he got to be a 1SG three times. Has a penchant for telling officers what they don't want to hear, but being absolutely right in his perscriptions.

    Ask him about his "gold standard" CASEVAC @ Hohenfels.



    Niel
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
    Who is Cavguy?

  9. #9
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavguy View Post
    SGM Wyatt was my 1SG for 14 months. He has all the dirt on me. I pay him to keep quiet!

    A tremendous NCO who shoots straight and kept me out of trouble (mostly) as a CO. He was so good he got to be a 1SG three times. Has a penchant for telling officers what they don't want to hear, but being absolutely right in his perscriptions.

    Ask him about his "gold standard" CASEVAC @ Hohenfels.



    Niel
    He is here with BDE C2--he actually said, "if you see Neil, slap him." I took that as a friendly hello as Stan used to slap me all the time...

    I got to where I liked it...

    Tom

  10. #10
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    I got to where I liked it...

    Tom
    Too much information!!!

  11. #11
    Council Member Stan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    3,817

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    ... as Stan used to slap me all the time...

    I got to where I liked it...

    Tom
    Way too much information
    If you want to blend in, take the bus

  12. #12
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    How to Slap someone which one is Stan?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feRxvR_12qY

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •