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Thread: Metal music - still in the thought stage

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Default Metal music - still in the thought stage

    Hi Guys,

    I was sitting around having a beer with my wife before my concert last night and we got into a discussion about people playing music in theatre - especially metal. I remember seeing something on 60 Minutes about people in Iraq patching their iPods into speaker systems, and that led to wonder about what type of music people were playing during different types of activities.

    One of the areas I've been researching for about 4-5 years now has been the effects of music on consciousness - so far limited to differences between Baroque and popular music, but one of my best students has been looking into metal.

    So, what I'm wondering about now is there any articular type or genre of music that is associated with particular types of in theatre operations? Are there any particular songs that are associated with perceptions of what is immediately happening?

    Any thoughts, etc. would be welcome. Thanks,

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Marc:

    Are you referring to Iraqis, Americans, or both?

    gian

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    You need to check out The Doonesbury character Toggle.

    Start here and click forward. PS. the first punchline reminds me of Rob.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMetz View Post
    Sometimes it takes someone without deep experience to think creatively.

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    Council Member SteveMetz's Avatar
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    Isn't "The Ride of the Valkyries" still required for air assault missions?

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    Council Member Umar Al-Mokhtār's Avatar
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    Default "Not exactly a Rumsfeld metric"

    Classic!

    In Gulf War I we would listen to bands like Poison, Guns n Roses, Cheap Trick, Motley Crue, Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Def Leppard, Van Halen, Ratt, and Anthrax. We usually had a mix of both CDs and tapes and most times only listened in one ear.
    "What is best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women."

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    Default The Sound of Silence

    During convoys, no music. Just the sound of the truck and the road. Not much fun, but you cannot hear the radios or the driver and gunner otherwise. Sucks, but driving around Iraq sucks, so its not a huge shock.

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi gian,

    Mainly us forces. BTW sorry for the short reply, but I'm in a recoding session now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gian P Gentile View Post
    Marc:

    Are you referring to Iraqis, Americans, or both?

    gian
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member bismark17's Avatar
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    Default re:

    Use of music that is not popular with the targeted audience has been used for years in Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design(CPTED) to displace problems at specific sites. I'm sure this is documented in various POP and DOJ studies.

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    For me in Afghanistan in 2005, it was Team America: World Police - both the movie and soundtrack. I can't hear or watch either without bringing back memories of Afghanistan, but anytime anything was actually going on, any TV or music or whatever would be turned off to hear the radios. So nothing comes to mind that I could associate with a particular activity.

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    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default I'm old and non-metallic but back in the day(s)

    the popular shooting music in Viet Nam was "Miss American Pie," M-60 gunners and Gunship Pilots all knew it...

    In Korea it was "Moving On" -- with significantly modified lyrics and a tip of the hat to that Canadian Icon, Clarence E. Snow.

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    Council Member Surferbeetle's Avatar
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    Default Iraqi Cafe's

    In the Iraqi Cafe's and streets there was a fusion of pop and classic middle east music that was pretty interesting. The videos showed alot more skin than I was expecting....about 95% of the people on the street in Mosul were men. After about 7 girls disappered and the only other women I would see looked to be about 60 or so with tribal tattoos on their faces.

    For us Americans it was your favorite music back at the hooch and HALO until about 12 or 1 in the morning (on the big-screens) first prayer and the first round of incoming arond 3 or 4 came quickly. As a geezer I watched more HALO than played because the younger generation is/was much better than I at HALO and they quickly became bored with toasting me...

    There were quite a bit of bootleg movies out for sale on the streets...you could tell someone was recording it in a movie theater with a camera but it added to the charm...
    Sapere Aude

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    Council Member SteveMetz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bismark17 View Post
    Use of music that is not popular with the targeted audience has been used for years in Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design(CPTED) to displace problems at specific sites. I'm sure this is documented in various POP and DOJ studies.
    As I watched all five seasons of The Wire over a two month period, I kept thinking that the cops should set up big speakers with polka music on the worst corners. ---Roll out the barrel.....

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    Marc:

    What might be an interesting line of inquiry for you on this topic is music played at memorial services in Iraq for fallen american soldiers. When I was there we referred to it in the program as "special music." At the memorial ceremonies for the soldiers from my squadron we usually stuck with the basics like "Amazing Grace" perhaps sung by a soldier with a good voice, or I remember once having "Amazing Grace" played by a british doctor from the green zone who played the bag pipes; pretty moving.

    But the best special music I remember and draws me back to it every time i hear the song on the radio is Bob Dylan's "Knockn' on Heaven's Door." At this memorial ceremony for a fallen infantryman 3 soldiers from his platoon, all talented musicians, played a version of it in the chapel with drums, a bass, and electric guitar along with a young man who had a very good voice.

    I will never forget the subtle but resonating guitar riffs in synch with the lyrics to the song; and I am still deeply moved when I hear these lyrics to it:

    Mama put my guns in the ground
    I can't shoot them anymore
    that long black cloud is comin' down
    I feel I'm knockn' on heaven's door

    Anyway, thought Iwould share that with you.

    What instrument to you play?

    gian

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi Gian,

    Quote Originally Posted by Gian P Gentile View Post
    What might be an interesting line of inquiry for you on this topic is music played at memorial services in Iraq for fallen american soldiers. When I was there we referred to it in the program as "special music." .....

    But the best special music I remember and draws me back to it every time i hear the song on the radio is Bob Dylan's "Knockn' on Heaven's Door." At this memorial ceremony for a fallen infantryman 3 soldiers from his platoon, all talented musicians, played a version of it in the chapel with drums, a bass, and electric guitar along with a young man who had a very good voice.
    Thanks for sharing that, Gian. I can picture it and it would be really moving.

    On the whole, I'm trying to avoid looking at situations where the music might be programmed by official convention - Amazing Grace would be an example of that. What I am really interested in is the almost circular feedback loop between a state of consciousness and a genre of music or specific piece. Steve's comment about Ride of the Valkyries or Ken's about American Pie would be specific pieces (okay, I can definitely see Ride of the Valkyries, but American Pie?!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gian P Gentile View Post
    What instrument to you play?
    I'm a Baroque singer . Tonight's recording was BWV 4 Christ lad in Todesbanden and BWV 78 Jesu, der du meine Seele. Tomorrow afternoon, we are recording BWV 227 Jesu meine Freude (these are the works we did in our concert last night).

    Part of the reason behind the interest in in theatre music and how it's used comes from being a musician myself. I've found hat I can "program" my mind (and emotions) to think/perceive in certain ways by controlling what music I listen to and I've also noticed that a number of people I know, both musicians and non-musicians, will do the same. I've also seen people who go through some pretty profound shifts in their lives (e.g. losing a long time job, getting a divorce, etc.) will sometimes change their entire taste in music.

    Marc
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bismark17 View Post
    Use of music that is not popular with the targeted audience has been used for years in Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design(CPTED) to displace problems at specific sites. I'm sure this is documented in various POP and DOJ studies.
    I haven't heard of that, but I'll snoop around and see what I can find. If you have any links, I'd appreciate them. Thx!

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMetz View Post
    As I watched all five seasons of The Wire over a two month period, I kept thinking that the cops should set up big speakers with polka music on the worst corners. ---Roll out the barrel.....
    O that is totally evil! I love it !!!!
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Let's say aside from a catchy tune

    Quote Originally Posted by marct View Post
    ...Ken's about American Pie would be specific pieces (okay, I can definitely see Ride of the Valkyries, but American Pie?!).
    the chorus resonates if you substitute 'you' for 'I.'

    So bye-bye, miss american pie.
    Drove my chevy to the levee,
    But the levee was dry.
    And them good old boys were drinkin� whiskey and rye
    Singin�, "this�ll be the day that I die.
    "this�ll be the day that I die."
    As an aside, Ride of the Valkyries worked in a movie, it would not in reality for the troops -- though the two sons who are Cops have been known to play it or the theme from Jaws, whichever is most appropriate, on the PA speakers of their Cruisers as they answer calls.
    Last edited by Ken White; 04-20-2008 at 02:57 AM.

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    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    the chorus resonates if you substitute 'you' for 'I.'
    LOLOL - okay, I can see that ! Some of the other lyrics probably fit with general perceptions as well
    Helter skelter in a summer swelter.
    The birds flew off with a fallout shelter,
    Eight miles high and falling fast.
    and
    Now the half-time air was sweet perfume
    While the sergeants played a marching tune.
    We all got up to dance,
    Oh, but we never got the chance!
    `cause the players tried to take the field;
    The marching band refused to yield.
    Do you recall what was revealed
    The day the music died?
    I've got to ask - does an M-60 keep the rhythm during the song?
    Last edited by marct; 04-20-2008 at 03:28 AM.
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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    Council Member Surferbeetle's Avatar
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    Default Drowing Pool & Tool

    Drowning Pool's song 'Bodies' can pretty much say it all at times...Tool's song Jambi is a pretty good jam as well...

    Usually however, I tried to listen to some songs to help smooth things out when I got back to the hooch...
    Last edited by Surferbeetle; 04-20-2008 at 03:15 AM.
    Sapere Aude

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    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    I just finished a paper that looked at technology, music, and protest. Social networks and mining play lists was part of the lit review. I think they are likely related.. Some resources.

    Malcolm, S., & William, W. (2006). Measuring playlist diversity for recommendation systems. Paper presented at the Proceedings of the 1st ACM workshop on Audio and music computing multimedia.

    Cheng, Y. (2003). Peer-to-peer architecture for content-based music retrieval on acoustic data. Paper presented at the Proceedings of the 12th international conference on World Wide Web, Budapest, Hungary.

    Ahn, Y.-Y., Han, S., Kwak, H., Moon, S., & Jeong, H. (2007). Analysis of topological characteristics of huge online social networking services. Paper presented at the The 16th international conference on World Wide Web, Banff, Alberta, Canada.

    Bockstedt, J. C., Kauffman, R. J., & Riggins, F. J. (2006). The Move to Artist-Led On-Line Music Distribution: A Theory-Based Assessment and Prospects for Structural Changes in the Digital Music Market. International Journal of Electronic Commerce, 10(3), 7-38.
    Sam Liles
    Selil Blog
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    The scholarship of teaching and learning results in equal hatred from latte leftists and cappuccino conservatives.
    All opinions are mine and may or may not reflect those of my employer depending on the chance it might affect funding, politics, or the setting of the sun. As such these are my opinions you can get your own.

  20. #20
    Council Member marct's Avatar
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    Hi SB,

    Quote Originally Posted by Surferbeetle View Post
    Drowning Pool's song 'Bodies' can pretty much say it all at times...Tool's song Jambi is a pretty good jam as well...
    Okay, I just listened to Bodies on YouTube - definitely not Bach ! What about it says it all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surferbeetle View Post
    Usually however, I tried to listen to some songs to help smooth things out when I got back to the hooch...
    So what do you listen to when you get back?
    Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
    Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
    Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
    Senior Research Fellow,
    The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
    Carleton University
    http://marctyrrell.com/

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