The Taliban collection (2006 onwards)

[jmm99]

is it new wine with an old label ? Or, just the same wine and bottle ?

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan was the name given to the nation of Afghanistan by the Taliban during their rule, from 1996 to 2001.

Some links to blogs which seem connected - here, here & here.

[milnews.ca]

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan was the name given to the nation of Afghanistan by the Taliban during their rule, from 1996 to 2001.

And the term still used by Afghanistan's Taliban in its statements, like this one (.pdf, link to non-terrorist page)

[120mm]

I wouldn't doubt if the answer isn't "yes" to both questions. It could be various mujahideen separating themselves from Taliban, and it could also be Taliban attempting to relabel themselves. And possibly simultaneously.

It could also be incompetent reporting, as well.

[jmm99]

e.g., JMM. But below are some Wiki links (which might be used as a start to a lot of Googling). Probably best to keep in mind that Taliban generically means students - so, the "Taliban" are not a monolith.

Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM, English: Movement for the Enforcement of Islamic Law) - These are the folks in Swat and Buner creating recent news, led by Sufi Muhammad bin Alhazrat Hassan (commonly Maulana Sufi Muhammad), and his son in law Maulana Qazi Fazlullah. This group is an offshoot from Jamaat-e-Islami (Pakistani political party founded in 1941 by Syed Abul A'ala Maududi).

All above not to be confused with Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP; Students' Movement of Pakistan) is a mainstream Taliban militant umbrella group in Pakistan, with apparent closer ties to Mullah Omar and UBL. Baitullah Mehsud is the leader of the pack, which came together ca. 2007-2009.

All of this gets more complicated, as per the following from the last link:

[edit] Leadership dispute
On March 27, 2009, Pakistan's Daily Times reported that Baitullah Mehsud's group was engaged in a dispute with a group lead by Qari Zainuddin Mehsud for control of South Waziristan.[38] The Daily Times described Qari Zainuddin as the "self-appointed successor of Taliban commander Abdullah Mehsud." Both groups had distributed pamphlets leveling accusations against the other groups' leader. Qari Zainuddin stated that Baitullah's group was not practicing jihad because Islam forbids suicide attacks. Baitullah's pamphlet claimed that Qari Zainuddin was a government puppet and a traitor to Islam and to the Mehsud tribe.[38] Qari Zainuddin was reported to have the support of Maulvi Nazir, a senior Taliban leader, and to have allied with the Bhittani tribe.[38]

Note 38 sources to this article.

Anyway, the "Taliban" are not a monolith - with quite a bit of linking and de-linking in "its" history.

Best I can do from my armchair on a Sunday afternoon.

[slapout9]

Senator Jim Webb was on Face The Nation this weekend and made the comment that Taliban means Guvmint. So I looked it up.......dosen't mean that exactly but the answer is very revealing.

Link 1.
http://www.islam-watch.org/ImranHoss...an_factory.htm


Link 2.
http://www.islam-watch.org/ImranHoss...an_factory.htm

Anybody know how correct this is or is not?

[Ken White]

To answer your direct question, a literal translation of Talib or Taleb is "A Person in need (of something)" in Arabic. It is popularly used for 'student.' The normal plural would be 'tullab' in Arabic but the Pashto plural is to add the 'an (Which in Arabic makes it 'two students'). A large batch of Koranic students out of the Paksitani Madrassas became the best organized and the largest of many factions in Afghanistan after the USSR departed. Since they were mostly students and were quite religious, they called themselves the Students; the Taleb An in Pashto. They later became the de-facto government is Afghanistan.

The world Talib is also used for 'seeker,' context dependent, in Arabic, Urdu and Pashto. It's also a popular name for boys in both India and East Africa. Abu Talib was the uncle of Mohammed and the Father of Ali, the founder of the Shi'i sect of Islam.

Webb as he often does opened his mouth before engaging his brain...

Those links posit some stuff that has been said and / or corroborated by others and refuted by still others. The owners acknowledge they're apostate Muslims. Some of their stuff is over the top but most is sorta reasonable. Viewers choice...

P.S.

David is right below -- I should have clarified that those were Afghan Students out of the Pakistani Schools and that it was an Afghan aggregation. It was supported to an extent and partly funded by Pakistan -- and Saudi interests...

[Entropy]

It depends on the context the term is used. When most westerners refer to the "Taliban" in the context of the Afghanistan opposition group, they are talking about the "Quetta Shura" which did control most of Afghanistan, was a de facto government (if not de jure) and seeks to regain its former status.

[slapout9]

It depends on the context the term is used. When most westerners refer to the "Taliban" in the context of the Afghanistan opposition group, they are talking about the "Quetta Shura" which did control most of Afghanistan, was a de facto government (if not de jure) and seeks to regain its former status.

Is this why they say there is a good Taliban and a bad Taliban so to speak?

[davidbfpo]

Slap,

Is this why they say there is a good Taliban and a bad Taliban so to speak?

I suspect the concept of the good and bad Taliban has been around for awhile, but has gained momentum intellectually with authors like David Kilcullen and in-country by those double-dealing types who try to split off the good from the bad.

It always amuses me that few outside Afghanistan and those immersed in the country know how many ex-Taliban or ex-Mujh defected before 2001 - notably Abu Sayyaf (sorry unable to readily find a source for this as Google returns the group named after him).

I know of one in-country observer of the Taliban regime who thought their initial practical appeal - bringing law and order - was a smokescreen for their known "radical" views on religion. When they gained local and swiftly wider, not national power, many locals learnt the hard way what Taliban rule meant. That said the ruling elite were Afghans and not "volunteers" from Pakistan.

davidbfpo

[tequila]

You're thinking of this distinguished Afghan lawmaker and noted Friend of bin Laden. Sayyaf was the one who invited bin Laden back to Afghanistan after he got booted from the Sudan.

However Abdul Sayyaf was never a member of the Taliban, a good example of the narcissism of small differences.

[Entropy]

Is this why they say there is a good Taliban and a bad Taliban so to speak?

Maybe so. President Karzai, for example, used to be in Omar's Taliban, but quit when it became too radical. Probably not a good example

Seriously though, I'm don't really know except to say, like others noted, that "Taliban" means "students" and, like anywhere, there is a spectrum of political and religious belief in Afghanistan.

[William F. Owen]

Hebrew for "Student" is Talmid - not so far off, I would submit.

[Entropy]

All,

I thought I would highlight this since it is open source and to ensure wide dissemination. The Quetta Shura Taliban, in one of their publications, advocates capture operations of coalition troops and foreign civilians. More at the link and here.

[Steve the Planner]

Entropy:

The Taliban run such an effective PR and media operation.

I was particularly intrigued by the glossy and photo-filled "In Fight" Magazine, which I, at first misread as "In Flight" magazine, conjuring up odd images of a snappy regional airline which they could use to move fighters and hostages around on---airline snacks? a menu?

That article, however, indicates that from now on they want to keep the hostages local. I guess their won't be any airline snacks?

Steve

PS- Please burn this article after reading it. None of us contemplating a triptique for that lovely destination want our wives and kids to see it.

[davidbfpo]

I am sure SWC have discussed the Taliban in many ways, but possibly not under this heading.

SWC member Melissa Payson co-authored an article 'The Taliban Are Still Here to Stay' here:http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...-here-to-stay/

Melissa has worked both sides of the Durand Line and was last working in North Waziristan.

Just a few quotes:

The only real solution to both nations’ existential crises is to engage directly in politics that are local, tribal, and perpetual. With the clock ticking rapidly for NATO to deliver stability in South Asia, success will depend on a paradigm shift in the West’s ability to grasp and act upon this.

Point 1:

First, the local. Both NATO forces and the Afghan government are meant to follow the current Marja battles with a governance strategy of winning over Taliban commanders and fighters and engaging villages in economic reconstruction projects.

Point 2:

Engaging directly with the tribal population must be the second pillar in any partnership...Any effective strategy must acknowledge and integrate the permanent staying power and territorial legitimacy of the Pashtuns....

Finally:

Finally, we have to come to terms with the perpetual nature of negotiations with local and tribal populations. A longer time horizon can save us from repeating the mistakes of the past, such as focusing solely on military solutions and attempting to buy off capital elites. To avoid Afghanistan becoming another Vietnam, these will have to continue long after Obama has brought the troops home.

Amidst the "spin" over Marjah, the ambiguities of the "round up" of the Quetta Shura and far more - now the SWC can comment.

[Bob's World]

I really have a hard time with alarmist statements like "existential threats." Like all forms of name calling, it is designed to cause people to shut down their rational thinking processes and react emotionally instead.

As to the "Taliban being here to stay." That may well be true, but at the same time no call for undue alarm. Afterall, are not "Protestant Christians" here to stay as well? In the 1500s statements like that may have been a great rallying cry for a Holy Roman Empire which employed a Catholic Christian ideology to control its populace. But most would probably agree that Protestants were a necessary evil, and have evolved considerably over the years. They are here to stay, but they are not an "existential threat." to anybody.

I think most analysts have their noses to close to these problems, both in time and space, to see them clearly. We need to do a better job of stepping back and gaining clearer, more rational perspectives.

[davidbfpo]

An Afghan journalist's (Najibullah Quraishi) extraordinary 10 days living and filming with an insurgent cell allied with Al Qaeda to sabotage a key U.S./NATO supply route...

Quraishi manages to interview the man in charge of some 4,000 Hezb-i-Islami fighters in the north. His name is Cmdr. Mirwais, a former millionaire businessman who turned to jihad after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. "Jihad has become a duty for all the Afghan nation because the foreign and non-believer countries have attacked us," Mirwais says. "They're getting rid of our religious and cultural values in Afghanistan. They've increased obscenity and want to force Western democracy on our country."

In a telling scene near the end of the film, the local Afghan police seem not to appreciate -- or even to acknowledge -- the extent of the insurgent threat in the north. "Everything's fine," the police chief says. "There's no problem. They've caused some problems, but everything's fine in this area near the main road. It's not a problem."

The film is not available in the UK.

[Kiwigrunt]

The film is not available in the UK.

Nor down-under.

[Entropy]

Can you guys get this on youtube?

[tequila]

Haven't watched it yet, but the interview with the journalist at the website is quite fascinating. The clear divide between the local groups and the "Central Group" under the HiG commander Mirwais represents a real opportunity. The tight links between HiG and al-Qaeda, Pakistani, and IMU fighters is also made clear.