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  1. #1
    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post
    There is an aporpo saying that you can't blame a dog for being dog... Well you can't blame a 21 yr old for being a 21 yr old, I think Caleb Campbell will regret this decision. The USMA education does not end on Miche Field on a Spring Day, it continues as they struggle to apply the lessons they learned.
    I remember walking by a stone as I walked out of Army home football games on Saturdays (usually after witnessing another drubbing at the hands of some major college power like Cincinnati or Worcester Tech). That stone had a bronze plaque on it with the following quotation from MacArthur:
    On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory.
    With all of the big time sports infrastructure improvements at USMA around what used to be the greensward called Howze Field (not to mention places like Shea Stadium, Doubleday Field and Target Hill Field (aka North Athletic Field), I wonder if that stone is still there. If it is, I wonder whether the Army Athletic Association (AAA) staff makes use of it to remind its young student atheletes that they are officer candidates first and foremost.
    Cadets draw a paycheck and get an education for free because the nation expects them to "provide for the common defense" as the Preamble to the Constitution says.

  2. #2
    Council Member Hacksaw's Avatar
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    Default Here Here

    Agree WM

    Just can't figure out why USMA would decide to build a way out for grads... If for no other reason, just the wrong message to send to the Corps
    Hacksaw
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  3. #3
    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    Default I was good with him going - until I saw this:

    In today's New York Times:

    "An Officer and a Linebacker for the N.F.L."

    “I’ve heard stories about what’s gone on in Iraq and Afghanistan,” Campbell said. “In another sense, the N.F.L. is just as much pressure. You’re out there to take somebody’s job. In terms of coaches can’t cut me? We’re talking about the N.F.L. here. This is a cutthroat business.”
    He obviously didn't pay attention at USMA between football practice. Ok, place him in BOLIC and on the next bird to Iraq or Afghanistan.

    NFL as tough as combat? Plueeze. If this is the type of statement he will utter for Army recruiting, ship him to the front.
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    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavguy View Post
    In today's New York Times:

    "An Officer and a Linebacker for the N.F.L."



    He obviously didn't pay attention at USMA between football practice. Ok, place him in BOLIC and on the next bird to Iraq or Afghanistan.

    NFL as tough as combat? Plueeze. If this is the type of statement he will utter for Army recruiting, ship him to the front.
    He is just another self-centered ego looking to get paid but with the difference he used a service academy to get set for it.

    Withdraw his commission and then send him to Iraq...

    Tom

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    Moderator Steve Blair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    He is just another self-centered ego looking to get paid but with the difference he used a service academy to get set for it.

    Withdraw his commission and then send him to Iraq...

    Tom
    Sounds good to me. That or pack him off for alternative service in a VA hospital or something similar. Maybe then he might get a clue as to the difference between combat and the NFL....
    "On the plains and mountains of the American West, the United States Army had once learned everything there was to learn about hit-and-run tactics and guerrilla warfare."
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  6. #6
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    I'm sorry because I know my opinion is going to upset some people. I simply feel that any military service academy and any cadet and any service that thinks the NFL is more important than service to the country deserves nothing less than ridicule for the dishonor they have engaged in. Pandering "recruitment" as an excuse for failure to serve as an officer leading troops is an abysmal lie. If you are more worried about your personal ambition of an NFL career then don't burn a seat for a person who wants to be a preeminent military officer and academy graduate. This is an absolute abomination and desecration of people like Roger Staubach who served their country then played a game. Every ring-knocker should be ashamed. I thought the academies were becoming more about service and commitment to an ideal of patriotism and self sacrifice. Every time I meet an academy graduate I now get to ask them, "Couldn't make it in the NFL huh?" I don't care if some Pentagon rat changed the rule, I expected more from the participants, and have been horribly disappointed.

    I guess Semper Fidelis only counts if you're enlisted or ROTC graduate. Oh, wait wrong service.
    Sam Liles
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    Council Member MattC86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    If you are more worried about your personal ambition of an NFL career then don't burn a seat for a person who wants to be a preeminent military officer and academy graduate. This is an absolute abomination and desecration of people like Roger Staubach who served their country then played a game.
    I agree with this especially. There were plenty of applicants for Caleb Campbell's spot at the USMA. All of them, presumably, would have been capable, faithful officers in the United States Army. Campbell will not, at least certainly not in the sense that his classmates are, and as has been mentioned (I think on the SWJ Blog) any gain in recruiting from the "free advertising" will be more than canceled out by the cheapening of a pillar on which the military services - no, service and honor and selflessness in general - are based.

    And yes, my head too almost exploded when the ESPN reporter said, "if you don't have to be one, I would suggest you not be one."

    Regards,

    Matt
    "Give a good leader very little and he will succeed. Give a mediocrity a great deal and he will fail." - General George C. Marshall

  8. #8
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default From the NYT Article:

    "Since November, the Navy has suspended its program governing early release after two years of active duty. “The nation is at war,” said Laura Stegherr, a Navy spokeswoman. “The Navy doesn’t intend to change the policy.”"
    Good for the Navy. Sad commentary on the Army. Nuke HRC to save the Army.
    Last edited by Ken White; 04-30-2008 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Typo

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    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    I just watched the ESPN video on the Blog post. Now I'm just ready to puke. The sheer glibness of it all just got me angrier, when combined with his interview quote above, which has disturbed me more all day. I'd love to tell him about my worst night, and see how that compares to a hard day in the NFL.

    I did like the panelist at the end who suggested that there was a message disconnect - how can he be an Army role model if the hardest thing he's done is Buckner? What's the message to the people. He should at least serve two before being let go.

    I also applauded the LT whose guilt got the better of him. Granted, leaving minor league ball is not leaving the NFL, but still.

    Anyone know if the policy applies to all soldiers, ROTC grads, or OCS grads? Or is it just USMA?
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
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  10. #10
    Council Member Rob Thornton's Avatar
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    Default In this case

    He branched ADA (I looked it up)
    stands for A Different Army.

    Sad.

    Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC86 View Post
    "if you don't have to be one, I would suggest you not be one."
    All,

    The reporter who said this statement is named Lisa Salters. I have a line on her email. I will post it up when I get it. I have a few questions to ask her.

    S/F

    Claymores

  12. #12
    Council Member RTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavguy View Post
    In today's New York Times:

    "An Officer and a Linebacker for the N.F.L."



    He obviously didn't pay attention at USMA between football practice. Ok, place him in BOLIC and on the next bird to Iraq or Afghanistan.

    NFL as tough as combat? Plueeze. If this is the type of statement he will utter for Army recruiting, ship him to the front.
    He branched ADA (I looked it up). I would have LOVED to see him come through The Armor School with that attitude.
    Example is better than precept.

  13. #13
    Council Member Umar Al-Mokhtār's Avatar
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    Default Campbell needs to go...

    not to the NFL but to IZ or AF first. He should not be allowed to dodge the bullet of his service commitment to the Army and the American taxpayer who footed the bill for his education.

    My daughter applied five freakin times to WooPoo on the Hudson and was denied each time. Even after she enlisted they denied her request to go to MAPS. She will be headed for Mosul with her MP company in October.

    Seems she has more balls than Campbell, but then again that's not a requirement to attend.
    "What is best in life?" "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women."

  14. #14
    Council Member wm's Avatar
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    Default Hot Off the Presses

    from the local community newspaper that serves the area around West Point

    Campbell and three Army teammates — fullback Mike Viti, punter/kicker Owen Tolson and wide receiver Jeremy Trimble — are the first football players to take advantage of the policy.

    "This is a way of serving your country," said Viti, one of four regiment commanders among Army's 4,000 cadets.

    "I think a lot of people had the misconception that if you're not getting bullets slung by your head, you're not serving your nation in a time of war."

  15. #15
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
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    "I find it, in some ways, motivating to make sure I make the team."
    I bet he does...

  16. #16
    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    I had it pointed out to me by a couple of acaddemy representatives yesterday that I was in error. Seems my post on SWC got me some attention. The Navy I was told is not nor will they be doing this with accademy graduates, and the Air Force doesn't have that good of football players. Well that is what Navy said. The Air Force representative quoted Fisher DeBerry saying their job is to make Air Force officers not NFL players. Yeah I know DeBerry left in 2006, but I thought the sentiment was in the right place. I have not verified any facts as to either sides case.
    Sam Liles
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    The scholarship of teaching and learning results in equal hatred from latte leftists and cappuccino conservatives.
    All opinions are mine and may or may not reflect those of my employer depending on the chance it might affect funding, politics, or the setting of the sun. As such these are my opinions you can get your own.

  17. #17
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
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    Default Out of the mouth of babes...

    Quote Originally Posted by wm View Post
    "This is a way of serving your country," said Viti, one of four regiment commanders among Army's 4,000 cadets.

    "I think a lot of people had the misconception that if you're not getting bullets slung by your head, you're not serving your nation in a time of war."
    ... horse s***.

    And of course they are getting 0-1 pay and the difference over that payed by the NFL is going to the Army? Right? Right?
    Last edited by SWJED; 05-03-2008 at 11:13 PM.

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