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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Default Chicago & Policing (new title)

    1) CHICAGO (AP) Police planned to increase patrols and put SWAT officers and specialized units on the streets over the weekend, a show of force aimed at deterring violence like the three dozen shootings that left nine people dead last weekend.
    "Weather permitting, we will have our helicopter up," said police spokeswoman Monique Bond, who said Thursday night was relatively quiet, with only four shootings, none fatal.
    Meanwhile, religious leaders said they had persuaded some churches to open their doors in the afternoons and evenings to protect people from gunfire.

    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...ivfNgD909FTAG0

    2) Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis on Friday swore in two dozen district commanders as well as other officers assigned new positions in a sweeping shake-up of the department's ranks and called on them to lead by example.

    *
    Weis replaced the commanders of 21 of the city's 25 districts and made a number of other job changes. Four were shuffled to command other districts, seven were promoted and 10 others were demoted, moved laterally or will retire.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...tory?track=rss


    3) Mayor Richard Daley said Saturday Chicago police officers will he armed with high-powered assault rifles when they're on the streets fighting gangs and other criminals.

    "Many times they're outgunned, to be very frank," Daley said at an event in the Englewood neighborhood. "When they come to a scene, someone has a semi fully-automatic weapon and you have a little pistol, uh, good luck."

    The city's police officers carry pistols, and Daley suggested they will start carrying "M4 rifles."

    Police spokeswoman Monique Bond said the department still is working out details about the M4 carbines.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,2104512.story

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    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    The entire violence agrument is being framed as an anti-gun argument instead of the crime issues of indigent criminal enterprise.
    Sam Liles
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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by selil View Post
    The entire violence agrument is being framed as an anti-gun argument instead of the crime issues of indigent criminal enterprise.
    Orwellian in it's scope, ain't it?

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    Speaking as a very distinct minority within the SWJ - a pro-gun control liberal - who also resides in Chicago during the summer, I have to say (1) I like Da Mare, and (2) I don't think you can try to deal with the issue of gang violence without gun control.

    Look at the parallel - we try to control weapons when we're doing stability ops in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else, don't we? At least to a degree. I agree that the problem isn't entirely guns, but it is at least part of the issue here. Good on Daley.

    And finally, you know you live in an exciting place when the police spokeswoman calls a Thursday night with eight (nonfatal) shootings "a relatively quiet evening."

    Regards,

    Matt
    "Give a good leader very little and he will succeed. Give a mediocrity a great deal and he will fail." - General George C. Marshall

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    Council Member Ron Humphrey's Avatar
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    Question UHH actually one question

    Quote Originally Posted by MattC86 View Post
    Look at the parallel - we try to control weapons when we're doing stability ops in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else, don't we? At least to a degree. I agree that the problem isn't entirely guns, but it is at least part of the issue here. Good on Daley.

    And finally, you know you live in an exciting place when the police spokeswoman calls a Thursday night with eight (nonfatal) shootings "a relatively quiet evening."

    Regards,

    Matt
    Don't most Iraqi's own weapons and we don't take the standard ones from them but mainly the big super nasty kinds?

    At least I thought thats what I've heard and read.
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    i pwnd ur ooda loop selil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC86 View Post
    Speaking as a very distinct minority within the SWJ - a pro-gun control liberal - who also resides in Chicago during the summer, I have to say (1) I like Da Mare, and (2) I don't think you can try to deal with the issue of gang violence without gun control.

    Look at the parallel - we try to control weapons when we're doing stability ops in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else, don't we? At least to a degree. I agree that the problem isn't entirely guns, but it is at least part of the issue here. Good on Daley.

    And finally, you know you live in an exciting place when the police spokeswoman calls a Thursday night with eight (nonfatal) shootings "a relatively quiet evening."
    Politics aside Matt, I have no problem with your position. I disagree based on a few simple facts.

    1) The number of people dying due to violence may seem horrific but it is still way below epidemic levels. The actual violence numbers have not changed significantly just the reporting of them. That is politics.

    2) The secondary change is that they reporting this as "school related" shootings though NONE of the actual shootings happened near or in a school.

    This is a gang related fight and like any gang related violence weapons have less to do with the situation than the inter-gang politics.

    Chicago already has some of the most severe weapons laws of any city in America. If gun-laws worked then Chicago and Washington DC should be some of the safest cities in America. The Chicago authorities though are simply using this minor outbreak of violence in a particular population for political expediency.

    There is also some evidence that the city officials do not want to stop violence just transfer it from the gangs involved to sanctioned authority by the police who will have high power rifles. Because, violence by the police doesn't count I guess.
    Sam Liles
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    Don't forget to duck Secret Squirrel
    The scholarship of teaching and learning results in equal hatred from latte leftists and cappuccino conservatives.
    All opinions are mine and may or may not reflect those of my employer depending on the chance it might affect funding, politics, or the setting of the sun. As such these are my opinions you can get your own.

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    Default There's considerably more to the story...

    Originally posted by MattC:
    Speaking as a very distinct minority within the SWJ - a pro-gun control liberal - who also resides in Chicago during the summer, I have to say (1) I like Da Mare, and (2) I don't think you can try to deal with the issue of gang violence without gun control.
    Richie Daley ("Da Mare") is a leader, but this is all about gun control, and not just in Chicago. He's pushing for statewide restrictions to match Chicago's existing restrictions (which are literally confiscatory), and the rest of Illinois just isn't having it. So, now it's time to justify the argument.

    Problem is, gun enforcement has been more of the problem. Know this for a fact, because I sat on a Federal GJ out of the Northern District of IL hearing cases, and guns are being transported into Chicago (literally by the hundreds), but very few of them are coming in from other areas in IL. Gangs were bringing them in from places down along the gulf coast (our cases), where the gangs were paying people $50 per semi auto that they purchase, and turn over to the gangs ("Ten gets you 5"). We were a small part of putting a stop to those pipelines - Federal cases, hard time. There's certainly more of it still going on.

    Matt, a bigger part of the problem is Cook County government. Remember, the City of Chicago doesn't run the judicial system - it's Cook County or State of Illinois. There's where the real problems exist. The corruption and patronage is so bad in those areas, and it has so hamstrung law enforcement efforts in different areas, that I am just amazed that people just sit there and take it.

    Sorry, but after getting a clear view from behind the curtain, this is all just hype.
    Last edited by Watcher In The Middle; 04-27-2008 at 05:39 PM. Reason: If Only I Could Spell...

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    The term "gun control" has been muddled. Does it mean legislation aimed at preventing certain individuals from possessing certain types of firearms? Or does it mean the act of preventing certain individuals from possessing certain firearms? There is a huge difference. The former is a goal. The latter is an achievement.

    Gun control legislation can only be viewed as a viable approach if we can reasonably expect such laws to have their intended effect, and if that intended effect serves some purpose. The intended effect is to disarm criminals. The purpose is to improve public safety. Gun control for its own sake was not the original purpose behind the movement. It is the purpose today.

    The popular gun control activist movement seeks legislation that casts too wide of a net. This causes some serious problems. Banning the possession of firearms for all residents because of the foolishness of a small minority of residents is generally not appreciated by the law abiding folks. It is also highly doubtful that it has the intended effect of disarming the criminals. I live in DC and my firearms are locked in a case in my parent's basement 500 miles away because of our "gun control" laws. The laws compel me to disarm, but not the criminals. That is why there is still a huge problem in DC with gun-related (aka, armed criminal-related) crimes.

    The single-minded focus on a legislative approach to abridge the rights of all gun owners only succeeds in polarizing the debate into gun owners' rights versus legislative activism. Most people do not commit gun crimes, so when their right to own a firearm is infringed upon because some activists had a bright idea, they predictably get defensive. The obvious target of their ire is the activist movement that seeks to disarm them. In other words, the gun control activists have created political opposition for no good reason, rather than working towards a shared goal of improving public safety. I see no way for these two factions to ever get to the point of working together to disarm criminals unless the activists make a good faith concession by dropping their attempts to infringe upon the rights of gun owners. So long as the gun control through legislation movement seeks to cast too wide of a net to catch a small group of deviants with a policy of highly dubious merit, the issue is destined to be a non-starter.

    The gun control activists have lost focus on their reason for being. Gun control began as an idea for how to improve public safety. The inherent flaw of disarming entire locales rather than targeting criminals caused a backlash. Rather than recognize this obvious, glaring error and changing course, groupthink took hold of the movement. Now it is a fellowship of determined activists who seek a goal for its own sake, simply because their opponents are their political enemies. Will legislation aimed at banning ownership of firearms reduce crime? Probably not. But does anyone even care anymore? Probably not.
    Last edited by Schmedlap; 04-27-2008 at 09:53 PM. Reason: formatting/spelling error

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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC86 View Post
    (2) I don't think you can try to deal with the issue of gang violence without gun control.

    Look at the parallel - we try to control weapons when we're doing stability ops in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere else, don't we? At least to a degree. I agree that the problem isn't entirely guns, but it is at least part of the issue here. Good on Daley.
    Swell idea, if only it worked...

    Violent crime is worse than ever, say Pcs on the front line
    By Melissa Kite, Deputy Political Editor
    Last Updated: 2:15am BST 28/04/2008
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nelect227.xml
    Gun, knife and gang crime is the worst it has ever been, according to a survey of 1,200 front-line police officers.

    Meanwhile, taking a page out of the Kavkaz.org (a Chechen War thing) playbook, Jeremiah Wright continues to sprinkle gasoline on embers in Chicago and elsewhere.
    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-w...eremiah-wright
    Last edited by AdamG; 04-28-2008 at 02:28 PM.

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    Council Member tequila's Avatar
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    Kavkaz = Jeremiah Wright / Bill Moyers interview = Chicago gangs increasing crime?

    Sorry, I'm too busy laughing my ass off.

    Also, why does the average Chicago cop on the beat need an M4? Seriously, are the Gangster Disciples or the Latin Kings targeting Chicago cops in straight-up firefights? Or is Mayor Daley's second cousin now employed at Colt?

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    Default Interesting in that violence in Chicago is skyrocketing this summer....

    and they have a lot of interaction with work done in Iraq.

    http://www.mnfwest.usmc.mil/public/i...2572A90047CB50

    http://chicagocopwatch.org/2009/02/m...s-fight-crime/

    I had a friend who deployed with the Marine bn that is local to Chicago around '04 and '05 south of Baghdad, and I remember a spate of articles on their deployment that associated their anti-gang work with how they would approach their work in Iraq. Here is a NY Times article on them and that deployment: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

    So its doubling interesting that violence has soared this year. Obviously there are many, many factors that lead to that, but still interesting.

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    There was a lot more death in the late 80's and early 90's. More of those shot are surviving. Some are shot intentionally to wound. There is a lot more violence directed towards the police.

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    Council Member bourbon's Avatar
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    Default Chicago Lawmakers: Bring in the National Guard

    2 Chicago state reps: Bring in the National Guard, ChicagoBreakingNews.com, April 25, 2010.
    Two state representatives called on Gov. Pat Quinn Sunday to deploy the Illinois National Guard to safeguard Chicago's streets.

    Chicago Democrats John Fritchey and LaShawn Ford said they want Quinn, Mayor Richard Daley and Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis to allow guardsmen to patrol streets and help quell violence. Weis said he did not support the idea because the military and police operate under different rules.
    .....
    So far this year, 113 people have been killed across Chicago, the same number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan combined in the same period, Fritchey said.
    Is there an ongoing gang war in Chicago? I was under the impression that violent crime was down in the city, and had migrated to Northern Indiana.

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    Second city cop is one of my favorite blogs.

    Regarding recent violent crime in Chicago, see the video in this recent post.

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    Secondcitycop is great.

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    Angry What The Cops Need To Do

    Quote Originally Posted by bourbon View Post
    2 Chicago state reps: Bring in the National Guard, ChicagoBreakingNews.com, April 25, 2010.

    Is there an ongoing gang war in Chicago? I was under the impression that violent crime was down in the city, and had migrated to Northern Indiana.
    The state reps are looking for publicity and job number one- getting rre-elected. But the Police need to take a no nonsense "Broken Windows" approach. Enforce the little things, jaywalking, code violations, or as our Captains used to say at Roll Call "make life unconfortable for them." If you run the kids off the corner at 8pm, you dont have to go back there at midnight after they've been drinking or drugging and have to deal with a shooting or stabbing. You dont have to be cruel, just enforce the law. You hit them with the little things and you avoid the big things. When they disregrd the summonses, you get default warrants and when you execute an arrest warrant when he is in a car or on the street, one never knows what you will find.

    Plus Police commanders need to be held accountable. Are their men and women producing? Introduce Comstat and hold Superiors accountable. I can tell you both as a police officer and FBI Agent, supervisors were never held accountable, it was the officer's fault or the agent's fault but never the supervisors.

    Police have to be constantly reminded that as Police officers, whenever ther is a confrontation resulting an court action, you never loose. The worst that can happen to you is a tie. Think about it. He has to interrupt his routine to be in court, for a police officer it's a payday and in some cases involving overtime, a lucrative payday. He has to hire a lawyer, you don't. So you hurt him with a loss of time and money.
    "It's the little things in life that trip you up." as my old Sergeant used to say.

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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    While there's @ 500 PR NG on the streets "fighting crime" now, the Chicago suggestion is pure political grandstanding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniperpitbull View Post
    The state reps are looking for publicity and job number one- getting rre-elected. But the Police need to take a no nonsense "Broken Windows" approach. Enforce the little things, jaywalking, code violations, or as our Captains used to say at Roll Call "make life unconfortable for them." If you run the kids off the corner at 8pm, you dont have to go back there at midnight after they've been drinking or drugging and have to deal with a shooting or stabbing. You dont have to be cruel, just enforce the law. You hit them with the little things and you avoid the big things. When they disregrd the summonses, you get default warrants and when you execute an arrest warrant when he is in a car or on the street, one never knows what you will find.

    Plus Police commanders need to be held accountable. Are their men and women producing? Introduce Comstat and hold Superiors accountable. I can tell you both as a police officer and FBI Agent, supervisors were never held accountable, it was the officer's fault or the agent's fault but never the supervisors.

    Police have to be constantly reminded that as Police officers, whenever ther is a confrontation resulting an court action, you never loose. The worst that can happen to you is a tie. Think about it. He has to interrupt his routine to be in court, for a police officer it's a payday and in some cases involving overtime, a lucrative payday. He has to hire a lawyer, you don't. So you hurt him with a loss of time and money.
    "It's the little things in life that trip you up." as my old Sergeant used to say.
    We have had a version of Compstat for years. We also have courts that consider enforcement of broken windows theory arrests to be Police harassment. Chicago Officers have been in Federal Court facing civil charges of violating civil rights. In my experiences the truth means nothing in Federal Court.

    Our State's Attorney's office has to approve felony charges except in the cases of drug offenses. Felony charges are usually not approved. Even in cases of battery on a police officer unless there are serious injuries sustained by the officer felony charges will not be approved. Offenses committed outside of Cook County will often result in felony convictions that would not even go to felony court in Cook County.

    An arrest situation can result in the death of an officer, time spent in Federal Court answering civil rights charges, injury, or prison for the officer. If you want to feel betrayed by your country be a cop in Federal Court.

    The vast majority of shootings I have encountered involved players who would still be in prison if they served their full sentences after conviction.

    We do not lack the physical and moral courage to do our jobs. The entire system is dysfunctional.

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    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
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    8 people were killed and at least 44 more were shot this past weekend in war-stricken Afgha....oh wait, it was in Chicago*
    http://www.wbbm780.com/Bloody-weeken...0-shot/7514229

    * Props to Fark.com
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamG View Post
    8 people were killed and at least 44 more were shot this past weekend in war-stricken Afgha....oh wait, it was in Chicago*
    http://www.wbbm780.com/Bloody-weeken...0-shot/7514229

    * Props to Fark.com
    Rough place.

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