Weight of back packed gear study

[slapout9]

Does anybody know Sam Katz who writes books for the Osprey- Men at War series. There is picture in the back of one his books that looks identical to the original Ephod. The picture is from 1958!!!! the US soldier in the picture is also wearing a new helmet that looks alot like some of the first ballistic material helmets. I used to have the book but somebody borrowed it and I never got it back. I came to know about all this while doing research on General Gavin. Would love to see the picture again because it has a publication reference that may lead to the load carrying study that was done.

[GS]

Thanks for the plug on the book Malcolm. The warriors load has been a major concern of mine for many years. Whether or not you are a fan of SLAM's the book, "The Soldier's Load..." is a good start.

Numerous load studies have been conducted and the powers that be pay lip service to them. Then they make everyone wear full PPE, regardless of the environment.

METT-T should drive the load more than anything else and the warrior should have an appropriate toolbox of equipment to accomplish the mission.

As of late I have been writing in my blog ( www.soldiersystems.net ) about the Ultra Light Weight equipment movement for some at the pointest end of the spear. I have been calling it the "330 revolution" because it is the weight of the fabric. Standard issue items are 1000D cordura. The trade off is performance. The 330D and 500D stuff won't last as long, but the units that will use them have higher budgets. They also have the budget to purchase MCOTS items such as sleep systems tuned to the environment and armor that does not restrict mobility as much as the armor used by general purpose forces. Fortunately, most everything that SOF uses will eventually find its way in the hands of the American Infantryman. It is but a matter of time.

[Ken White]

SOF can go lightweight for many missions. When you go out hard and fast -- and come back fast you can use the lightweight stuff; it'll tear up but you can replace it easily back at base. With your American Infantryman; he's out fro weeks at a time -- if it tears, he's out of luck. Yes, in an Afghanistan or Iraq like situation, it can be easily replaced. Every war is not like these two and every replacement pack or harness displaces food and ammo...

Good examples are the Mk 46 and Mk 48 Machine guns; great for SOF -- bad juju for the Infantry; they aren't tough enough; lack of durability kills...

[William F. Owen]

As of late I have been writing in my blog ( www.soldiersystems.net ) about the Ultra Light Weight equipment movement for some at the pointest end of the spear. I have been calling it the "330 revolution" because it is the weight of the fabric. Standard issue items are 1000D cordura. The trade off is performance. The 330D and 500D stuff won't last as long, but the units that will use them have higher budgets.

I tend to agree with Ken. However I have a UK issue DPM Goretex Jacket that I is extremely light, and the 330 would seem to be the way forward with some Cordura items, like Jacket pads. What's the Martindale number on 330? wonder?

Given the freedom to make the required judgements and run risk, I don't see load carrying as a big problem. It's the leadership and CoC that is the problem. - and again lack of testing and written doctrine. Actually some of the best info is in one of the old FM-7's. I try and look out which one.

[sapperfitz82]

I took part in a study of this sort in 2003. I can attest that it was very thorough indeed, though even a cursory glance at the study reveals that.

I have a PDF of it, if anyone is interested.

Find it here on AKO.
https://www.us.army.mil/suite/doc/8278839 | Author: andrew.k.childress | Format: pdf | Date Last Modified: 2007/07/27

In answer to the question, in almost every case, we are over our max weight by 35 lbs. Ironically, the IBA/OTV weighs just about that much.

Icidentally, the largest percentage of patients in military hospitals are there for back pain, I am told.

http://www.worldchiropracticalliance.org/news/iraq.htm

[Tom Odom]

yep that is the study my office and the Natick rep started from here at JRTC

My NCO was one of the collectors


Tom

[slapout9]

Tom, is it secret? I don't have that AKO thingy.

[Tom Odom]

Tom, is it secret? I don't have that AKO thingy.

No but it is a CALL document. Send me an email.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapperfitz82
I took part in a study of this sort in 2003. I can attest that it was very thorough indeed, though even a cursory glance at the study reveals that.

Is this the Task Force Devil effort done with the CTF 82 and one other CTF?

Yep that is the one.

[slapout9]

Tom it is on the way,Thanks.

[William F. Owen]

I took part in a study of this sort in 2003. I can attest that it was very thorough indeed, though even a cursory glance at the study reveals that.

Is this the Task Force Devil effort done with the CTF 82 and one other CTF?

I talked to their guys in London, a while back. It is an accurate record of what is carried on operations, but as one their guys pointed out, that raises a lot of questions, few answers. I assume the question and answers bit was done by someone else.

However, while the US seems to be dealing with their personal Loads, the UK is getting increasingly crippled.