a.) Yes, soldiers have to understand their weapons performance and capabilities. So what? Lawrence is just coming to a realisation that most professional officers knew already.
b.) Comparing Haig, with Belisarius is an exercise in futility and shows an very poor understanding of the considerable challenges that Haig faced.
T.E. Lawrence was as much a charlatan and fraud as Liddell-Hart, albeit a possibly brave one. Why give any credence to a discussion of men poorly informed on the subject?
Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"
- The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
- If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition
In Re: Wilf
Some things are eternal... when I read the thread title... I immediately thought WILF will have a few pithy thoughts to share on this topic... low and behold, the most recent post was indeed from WILF... and none to my surprise reflected nearly exactly what I had presupposed...Originally Posted by William F. Owen
I suppose that makes me a SWC junkie
Live well and row
Hacksaw
Say hello to my 2 x 4
And, as a final aside, much of the Lawrence bashing is unfounded. Seven Pillars of Wisdom is stylized autobiography in line with what many of Lawrence's Modernist contemporaries were writing. As such, there are distortions--many of which are either openly acknowledged by Lawrence himself. However, history supports the vast majority of his role in and account of the Arab Revolt. In A Prince of Our Disorder, John E. Mack disputed many of the claims of his more critical autobiographers and found almost universal support from the men with which he served:
Mack similarly pokes holes in Richard Aldington's 1955 book Lawrence of Arabia: A Biographical Inquiry, which--frankly--is very lame in its criticism. Most notably, he outs Lawrence's parents who were not married when he was conceived and claims that (paraphrasing very slightly) Lawrence liked being raped in Deraa when he was in Turkish captivity. The book was almost universally panned by the men who were there with Lawrence. Many wrote responses to the book:The subscriber's edition of Seven Pillars, of which about two hundred copies were printed in 1929, was sent to thirty officers who served in the Revolt, including such men as Allenby, Joyce, Newcombe, Young, Peake, Stirling, and Winterton. Copies were widely circulated and read by many others who had firsthand knowledge of the events of the Revolt. […] Neither Sterling nor any other of these men every questioned the veracity of Lawrence's account. Concerning the attack and seizure of Aqaba by land, for example--the single exploit of the campaigns for which Lawrence is best known--he has been accused of undeservedly claiming credit for its strategy. Suleiman Mousa in particular states that "the plan for capturing Aqaba was devices by Faisal and Auda in Wejh." But for Colonel Edouard Bremond, the leader of the French mission (who resented Lawrence), confirms that the plan was discussed in conference before 'Awdah abu-Tayyi joined in the Revolt…[1]
I can go on citing first-hand accounts of Lawrence in Mack's book, but I will assume that the word of the soldiers who fought with him will be good enough…When Aldington attacked Lawrence as a charlatan and a fraud he aroused most intensely the ire of Lawrence's fellow officers. The angry reaction of Captain L. H. Gilman, who commanded an armored-car battery in close association with Lawrence until near the end of the campaign, is typical… […] Gilman then proceeds to refute Aldington on specific matters of which he had firsthand knowledge, such as Lawrence's presence and courage in operations against the Hijaz railroad that Aldington had denied.[2]
(I would have included that in my early manifesto, but most of my books are still boxed up from a move.)
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[1]. John E. Mack, The Prince of Our Disorder (Boston: Little, Brown, and Company, 1976), 177-178.
[2]. Ibid, 278.
Last edited by Erich G. Simmers; 02-10-2011 at 12:18 AM.
Erich G. Simmers
www.weaponizedculture.org
methods other than what?
I am going to defend Lawrence on a few points here, but honestly whether or not Lawrence is an admirable guy is besides the point. There are far better defenses of and attacks on Lawrence than we're writing here. What I have never heard discussed before is this discussion of strategy as eternal. Anyone disagree that strategy is in anyway eternal?
General Allenby and another war correspondent named W. T. Massey both praised his centrality to the Arab Revolt before Lowell Thomas's stage show.[1] Also, it is worth noting that the dude wanted to enlist after the war and live out his life in obscurity. His continued celebrity was more of burden than anything else. It is evident throughout his letters.
This is unfair. I have found no evidence that Lawrence remotely viewed himself or his peers that way. As one example, Lawrence told Liddell Hart that his theory and practice of war would take no more than 10 pages to write. (I am not going to dig for the citation right now, because I feel silly footnoting these posts so much and have dissertation to get back to.) He certainly didn't think what he did was rocket science, and he gave amble credit to other highly capable advisers and trainers like Herbert Garland.Whenever an outsider to the military serves in a war and later claims to have been a rare genuis casting pearls before the swine of the regular officer corps the institution usually closes ranks against him. The rumors about Lawrence's sexuality have also made him something of a hero among non-military types who for the most part have never served in uniform but still believe themselves to be intellectually superior to the dullards of the professional officer caste.
His actual addresses to the officer corps were stuff like his 1917 "The Twenty-Seven Articles of T. E. Lawrence."[2] It was originally intended as a brief in a secret journal called The Arab Bulletin. There is a reason Kilcullen modeled his "Twenty-Eight Articles" on it; it is a solid advice to Lawrence's contemporaries as foreign military advisors. I came across a letter to one of his commanders yesterday where Lawrence wrote (paraphrasing), "Don't stick any of this report in the Bulletin--you're making too big a deal out of me." (Again, I'm not going to dig for the letter--I'll edit later if I find it in the course of my actual day job.)
As for Seven Pillars, his rationale for writing the book was three-fold: 1. work through his own trauma and guilt over what happened during and immediately following the war; 2. vent his frustrations about the political settlement; and 3. join his high-art literary friends as a "man of letters." (Lawrence was friends with many of the major writers of the day; you folks can make what you will out of this last one.)
Lastly, I can say from experience that Lawrence is no hero to academics--for any reason, homosexuality or otherwise. For example, read Edward Said. Kaja Silverman (who I mentioned below) is more measured, but there is definitely no love. In fact, my peers give me a hard time for showing an interest in him--much less saying anything favorable of him.
Steve:
I agree with you on this point about Lawrence and Bell although Lawrence's actual views are probably messier than either of us would present them. At times, Lawrence seems oddly conscious of points you raise:
A first difficulty of the Arab movement was to say who the arabs were. Being a manufactured people, their name had been changing in sense slowly year by year. Once it meant an Arabian. There was a country called Arabia; but this was nothing to the point. There was a language called Arabic; and in it lay the test. It was the current tongue of Syria and Palestine, of Mesopotamia, and of the great peninsula called Arabia on the map. Before the Moslem conquest, these areas were inhabited by diverse peoples…[2]Conversely, Lawrence did try to set up a post-war Middle East very much in his image and in the interests much as you say. A scholar named Kaja Silverman lays out the "messiness" of this construction of the Middle East pretty well.[4] As a Westerner imposing this "nation in a box" strategy, of course it is a fantasy.This square of land, as large as India, formed the homeland of Semites, in which no foreign race had kept a permanent footing, though Egyptians, Hittites, Philistines, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks and Franks had variously tried.[3]
At any rate, I am not proposing we adopt his politics, thinking about war, or anything of the sort. I just didn't think some of the characterizations of him were fair. Besides, I thought the strategy vs tactics bit was fascinating. Maybe, it's just me.
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[1]. Mack, 175-176.
[2]. T. E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph (1922 edition on my Kindle, not sure how to cite these damn things).
[3]. Ibid.
[4]. Kaja Silverman, "White Skin, Brown Masks: The Double Mimesis, or With Lawrence in Arabia," Differences 1, no. 3: 17-18.
Last edited by Erich G. Simmers; 02-10-2011 at 03:33 PM.
Erich G. Simmers
www.weaponizedculture.org
A Theoretical Exploration of Lawrence of Arabia’s Inner Meanings on Guerrilla Warfare
A Theoretical Exploration of Lawrence of Arabia’s Inner Meanings on Guerrilla Warfare
Entry Excerpt:
A Theoretical Exploration of Lawrence of Arabia’s Inner Meanings on Guerrilla Warfare
by Basil Aboul-Enein and Youssef Aboul-Enein
Download the Full Article: A Theoretical Exploration of Lawrence of Arabia’s Inner Meanings on Guerrilla Warfare
The concept of guerrilla warfare dates back as far as ancient times. Since the earliest days it has been a tactic of war used by every class of man against those defined as invaders and oppressors. Hannibal Barca’s early victories against Rome are owed considerably to how he acted unexpectedly by taking an impossible route through the Alps to ambush the Roman armies. His ruses were so constant, his stratagems so subtle that the Romans felt constantly insecure, off-balance, and on edge. Hannibal was stymied by Quintus Fabius Maximus, who turned the Roman army into virtually a guerrilla force. His forces shadowed Hannibal’s marches, harassed his foragers, cut off stragglers, nipped off stray patrols, but Maximus never allowed himself to be drawn into a full-scale fight.
Download the Full Article: A Theoretical Exploration of Lawrence of Arabia’s Inner Meanings on Guerrilla Warfare
Capt Basil Aboul-Enein, USAF is stationed at Columbus AFB in Mississippi and recently completed his Masters in Military History with Norwich University. His brother Commander Youssef Aboul-Enein is Adjunct Islamic Studies Chair at the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, and author of “Militant Islamist Ideology: Understanding the Global Threat,” (Naval Institute Press, 2010). Both brothers share a passion for educating America’s military leaders on Islam, Islamist Political Theory, and Militant Islamist Groups. They wish to thank Ms. Dorothy Corley, who recently graduated with her B.A. in International Relations from Boston University, for her edits and discussion that enhanced this work.
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What We Can Learn From Lawrence of Arabia
What We Can Learn From Lawrence of Arabia
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How Would Lawrence of Arabia Defeat the Islamic State?
How Would Lawrence of Arabia Defeat the Islamic State?
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A resource to plunder
Hat tip to an article on WoTR which provided a link to this website:http://www.telstudies.org/index.shtml
It explains:This T. E. Lawrence Studies website is edited and maintained by Jeremy Wilson. Its content draws on the research archive formed through work on Lawrence of Arabia, The Authorised Biography and the ongoing Castle Hill Press edition of T. E. Lawrence's writings. Expenses maintaining the site are funded by Castle Hill Press. The site has no connection with any other organisation.
davidbfpo
A few years ago, British Trostkyite Tariq Ali claimed that Lawrence had worked on some sort of secret mission to destabilize Afghanistan in 1927 and while in India, had married Akbar Jahan (who was later the wife of Kashmiri leader Sheikh Abdullah). Comrade Tariq has a very fertile imagination and my rule-of-thumb is to mistrust his stories until and unless confirmed by 3 more reliable sources. So a question for Lawrence fans here, any chance any of this is true?
http://lahore.city-history.com/place...bia-in-Lahore/
(I have begun to realize that I mistrust Tariq Ali far more than most Western observers do. I think I am right, but feel free to correct me)
I have just emailed Jeremy Wilson and asked that question. Hopefully he will reply!
davidbfpo
Jeremy Wilson's reply
Via an email:This is a myth. Sensational (and completely fictional) stories appeared in the popular Indian press during the autumn of 1928, to the effect that Lawrence was working for British Intelligence in Afghanistan. Evidently someone believed them and built a personal story around them. This isn't the only case in TEL's biography where a fictional press story generated what at first sight looks like supporting evidence. Likewise, there were countess press stories in the 1920s and 1930s about his alleged spying activities in different parts of the world. The stories even continued after he died, with foreign journalists claiming that his death had been faked.....
davidbfpo
Bullet Proves Lawrence of Arabia’s Tall Tales of Desert Heroics Weren’t as Outlandish
Bullet Proves Lawrence of Arabia’s Tall Tales of Desert Heroics Weren’t as Outlandish as Cynics Said
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TE Lawrence: a merged thread
Bullet Proves Lawrence of Arabia’s Tall Tales of Desert Heroics Weren’t as Outlandish as Cynics Said
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Last edited by davidbfpo; 04-03-2016 at 10:57 AM.
Additional thoughts -
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/telawrence.htm
A scrimmage in a Border Station
A canter down some dark defile
Two thousand pounds of education
Drops to a ten-rupee jezail
http://i.imgur.com/IPT1uLH.jpg
T.E. Lawrence and the Desert Bromance That Sold America on a War
T.E. Lawrence and the Desert Bromance That Sold America on a War
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Did the Taliban follow Lawrence's advice?
The historian and archaeologist Neil Faulkner has popped up in several posts due to his field research and writing. It is a long story, but I am due to meet him in April and this 2010 article of his 'Guerrilla of Arabia: How one of Britain's most brilliant military tacticians created the Taliban's battle strategy' will be of interest.
Link:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-2081555.html
Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-28-2017 at 09:47 PM. Reason: 54,429v Up 20k since May 2016!
davidbfpo
Oxford Conference
The Changing Character of War Programme @ Oxford University, has a half-day conference on July 10th 2017, entitled 'T E Lawrence, The Fall of Aqaba & Global War', free and requires registration. Amongst the speakers are:Link:http://www.ccw.ox.ac.uk/events/2017/...aba-global-warDr John Peaty, Dr Neil Faulkner, Gp Capt John Alexander, Maj Dr Paul Knight and CCW Director, Dr Rob Johnson.
Last edited by davidbfpo; 03-30-2019 at 05:40 PM. Reason: 106,306v today
davidbfpo
The Head of the Changing Character of War Programme @ Oxford University, Dr. Rob Johnson, has written a book 'Lawrence of Arabia on War: The Campaign in the Desert 1916-1918' to be published by Osprey (UK) this month. For details:https://ospreypublishing.com/lawrence-of-arabia-on-war
I quote the last paragraph in the author's short article as to the value of studying Lawrence:Link:https://www.theamerican.co.uk/pr/ft-...ia-Rob-JohnsonBut here lies Lawrence’s greatest contribution to military thought and practice. He argued for the understanding of war through intense study and condemned slavish adherence to rules. He was compelled to adapt his own theory when confronted by the harsh reality of war. He believed in challenging assumptions and made use of a wide variety of historical cases to seek out the optimum solution. He cautioned against simplified and confident assertions based on a handful of selected cases, claiming that his own ideas were the result of ‘hard brain work’ leavened by equally hard experience. Lawrence was more than a celluloid legend: he was an advocate for thinking, learning, and adapting. That is good advice in any crisis.
Last edited by davidbfpo; 04-19-2020 at 07:03 AM. Reason: 113,231v today and 118,053v 19/4/2020
davidbfpo
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