The USMC in Helmand (merged thread)

[TROUFION]

it's been a long time since I've posted for many different reasons. mainly didn't have anything worthwhile to say. Also, I've been busy. Currently I am on a staff in southern afghanistan and have a good view of what is going on. I cannot cover too much here but what I can say is that the two articles (the first posted by tequila & the mcclatchy article) are not the whole story.

Unclass version- the Coalition and Afghan forces have upped the anti for fighting in the winter. If you had stats on the number of insurgents kia this would be shown. But it is not about body counts.

We are not 'winning' yet but we are doing good things. The tactics, well this is my favorite quote: 'afghanistan is a place where the land fashions the people, it is also a place where the land and the people should fashion the military operations.' Most of the folks fighting this fight 'get it.'

As for the ROE issue, McClatchy had it wrong. There was, and in some circles still is, a miss understanding of the ISAF ROE. This has and is being corrected through training. The ROE is designed to help increase Afghan lead operations and to reduce collateral damage. There are some issues between the various nations who have 'national caveats' but they can be worked with through good planning. Bottomline our guys can enter buildings if they need to, we are not limited in our right to self defense. We just prefer to have the Afghans do it, it is their country after all.

-T

[Cavguy]

it's been a long time since I've posted for many different reasons. mainly didn't have anything worthwhile to say. Also, I've been busy. Currently I am on a staff in southern afghanistan and have a good view of what is going on. I cannot cover too much here but what I can say is that the two articles (the first posted by tequila & the mcclatchy article) are not the whole story.

Unclass version- the Coalition and Afghan forces have upped the anti for fighting in the winter. If you had stats on the number of insurgents kia this would be shown. But it is not about body counts.

We are not 'winning' yet but we are doing good things. The tactics, well this is my favorite quote: 'afghanistan is a place where the land fashions the people, it is also a place where the land and the people should fashion the military operations.' Most of the folks fighting this fight 'get it.'

As for the ROE issue, McClatchy had it wrong. There was, and in some circles still is, a miss understanding of the ISAF ROE. This has and is being corrected through training. The ROE is designed to help increase Afghan lead operations and to reduce collateral damage. There are some issues between the various nations who have 'national caveats' but they can be worked with through good planning. Bottomline our guys can enter buildings if they need to, we are not limited in our right to self defense. We just prefer to have the Afghans do it, it is their country after all.

-T

I know Nancy Youssef, the author of the article, and she's pretty conscientious. If you have a factual correction/modification for her article, I can email it to her.

Niel

[jmm99]

for the clarification on the ISAF ROEs. Stay safe.

[Teufel]

As for the ROE issue, McClatchy had it wrong. There was, and in some circles still is, a miss understanding of the ISAF ROE. This has and is being corrected through training. The ROE is designed to help increase Afghan lead operations and to reduce collateral damage. There are some issues between the various nations who have 'national caveats' but they can be worked with through good planning. Bottomline our guys can enter buildings if they need to, we are not limited in our right to self defense. We just prefer to have the Afghans do it, it is their country after all.

-T

I really can't blame Ms Yousef. While she does have her own agenda, as does any reporter, I think she was reporting on what she saw and heard. When I was in Afghanistan I saw that the average Marine and Soldier on the ground was convinced that they could not enter buildings and felt that they were limited in their ability to engage known enemy forces. Whether or not this is really the case, that is what the reality on the ground was. The problem is that this misunderstanding existed at a level well above the platoon level. At least it did when I was there. The Marines recently transitioned to ISAF ROE from OEF ROE and it is normal for there to be some confusion. I am glad to hear that this is being addressed now.

[ODB]

Unclass version- the Coalition and Afghan forces have upped the anti for fighting in the winter. If you had stats on the number of insurgents kia this would be shown. But it is not about body counts.

Never been a big numbers guy in the past, however they do tell a story, as I am starting learn (without a statistics class, yet). In this case there are many things to gain from numbers, the increase in IED numbers and CF deaths. Agreed there are underlying circumstances to both. The biggest being CF numbers have increased as have the number of operations. A quieter number is the IED one. Not just the number of IEDs but also the types, how they are being initiated, built, etc... The lessons from Iraq are flooding into Afghanistan, no doubt the fighters as well. Throw in the growing (size) of the safe haven in Pakistan and the dynamics change immensly, in a short period of time.

NATO is an animal of itself.....

[TROUFION]

The issue is not with the veracity of the reporting I am sure that Ms. Yousef reported what she was told. From my vantage she always seemed a straight shooter. However what she did get wrong, and what the Marines on the ground needed training in was the actual ROE.

"But in Afghanistan, they operate under the rules of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force, of which U.S. troops are part. Under those regulations, only Afghans can search buildings and detain people."-McClatchy News.

This statement is incorrect, though I have no doubt that it came from reliable sources, it is just that they were misinformed.

Truth-The 2/7 Marines operated under OEF rules and the SPMAGTF-A Marines operate under ISAF, the rules are different.

The rules appear (and are) cumbersome. They are difficult for all ranks to grasp. BUT once the training is in place and conducted the issues are reduced.

Note that many of the Marines in theater now were training for Iraq upto in some cases 2-4 months prior to coming here. This caused some issues with the baseline training. ROE was one of those issues.

The bottom line is this nothing gets in the way of our right to self defense. If hostile intent and or act is identified our forces can deal with it approriately. If that means detaining a person or entering a building without ANSF present they can do so. HOWEVER, we mitigate this by trying very hard to integrate all our actions with the ANSF.

The ANSF and Government of Afghanistan are the future, we endevour to train them; work with them; and integrate all our actions with them at every opportunity.

-T

[Ken White]

Stay alert.