Who were/are the Greatest Political Leaders

[Umar Al-Mokhtār]

Steve: Agree, there certainly were purges within the Viet Minh after the French left the North, but Mao's "social" programs (and Stalin's) were such failures that millions died. Ho did not go quite that far. But purges are the Leftist way: We will agree to disagree until we have total power, then you die!

Van: Unfortunately there's no "tounge in cheek" emoticon! Machiavelli's writings in "The Prince" are what led to his name being used pejorativly. His name has been misused in a similar way as the term "Ugly American" has.

Plus I enjoy using the word pejorative every chance I get.

[marct]

Certainly agree with most of WM's list, plus Elizabeth 1st, Hatshepsut and Temujin. A couple of others:

Frederick Barbarosa
- combined military prowess and massive advances in bureaucratic organization of the HRE.
Richard III
- the last English king to lead his troops in battle, the last English king to systematically administer justice, and an all around decent guy wrongly slandered by the usurping Tudors (not that I'm prejudiced ).
Ptolemy
- one of the few of the Diodachi to create a stable state; god general, god politician, gtreat administrator.
Ahmose and Khamose (founders of the Egyptian New Kingdom)
- freakin' brilliant brothers who threw the Hyksos out of Egypt (yeah, they were "insurgents" ) and reconstructed the entire Egyptian state.
Salah al-Din
- one of the few Muslim leaders who could actually find his a&& with one hand when it came to dealing with the Crusader states; excellent administrator and war leader.
Basil II (Bulgaris)
- last of the great "military Emperors" of Byzantium; held the bureaucratic faction in check, increased the stability of the empire, annihilated the Bulgars as a threat to the Empire.

[Van]

Umar,
Re: Machiavelli: I'm just amused by the irony of a (for the time) fairly radical, liberal's name to be used as the quintessential term for cynical pragmatism. And, of course, perjorative is a pretty cool word.

Marct,

Frederick Barbarosa
- ... massive advances in bureaucratic organization of the HRE.

Greatest politician... "made advances in bureaucratic organization"
I'm not sure advancing bureaucracy makes a politician great. If that is a criteria, Hammurabi and Confucius (Kong Fuzi, K'ung Fu Tzu, pick your spelling) would be 'A' list politicians. I would argue that Barbarosa had other qualities that make up for this short fall


TT,
Temujin is a good call, he appreciated the value of robust, rapid communications. A point against him is how brief the existance of his empire was after his death.

In the 'time will tell' division - Yulia Tymoshenko, Prime Minister of Ukraine. Now I regret mentioning her in a Kitakidogo Social Club entry. Her efforts to clean up Ukraine corruption, her candor in openly addressing the direction that Russia is taking, and her positive vision for her nation are an admirable model for any political leader.

[Norfolk]

Hatshepsut? This seems rather uncertain. Other than reviving Egyptian trade with Punt (and commissioning some beautiful architecture), it does not strike me that much really occurred during her reign that was substantively beneficial. Egypt weakened dramatically vis-a-vis its neighbours, and vassals themselves either jumped ship and ultimately cast their lot with the King of Kadesh, or found themselves compelled to do so. Not a single campaign of any significance was waged during her reign. Moreover, AFAIK, no substantial internal reform was effected within Egypt itself. She probably had her hands full just trying to secure and maintain the legitimacy of her rule. Thuthmoses III (probably not least due to the internal pressures that had been building-up during Hatshepsut's reign) had to deal with all this after he came to power.

I would have to agree with Schmedlap on Muhammed. We're still knee-deep in dealing with the effects, political and otherwise, of the order he created. And the effects will persist for centuries to come.

[AmericanPride]

King Ferdinand of Aragon and Queen Isabella of Castile: managed the consolidation of their kingdom by expelling Muslim rivals from the Iberian Peninsula in the Reconquista, a targeted repression of Jewish converts (and remaining Muslims) through the Spanish Inquisition IOT to destroy domestic opposition factions, and enhanced (what would become) Spain's international position by defeating the French in Italy and securing legal rights over much of the New World.