Be Happy to Help Where I Can
Kenyatta,
Happy to help where I can but first a bit of bio and interests from you would be helpful. You can introduce yourself here and offer such information.
Second, give us a better feel of where you are in your research and what is your purpose/intent in doing this research. What level are you at in your schooling, professional career, etc?
Meanwhile I will work up answers to some of your questions.
Tom
Tom,
Excellent stuff.
This is a link to my post in introducing myself:
http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...6896#post46896
Look forward to your posts.
Tom,
I'm currently doing research on this war and detailed military information on the war is quite sparse(as with most of the modern post colonial African wars) and I heard you were in a front row position during the war(U.S. embassy in Kinshasa) and I have a few questions:
First understand that I left Zaire as DATT in Sep 94 to go to Rwanda: see my memoirs for that experience. What happened 94-96 played a large role in the 98-2003 conflict. Good source of 96-98 insights is Ambassador (ret) Robert Gribbin's book. He was my second ambassador in Rwanda. Also google Richard Orth who was the DIA analyst on the Great Lakes for the 93-96 time frame and then replaced me as DATT in 96. He then went to Uganda as DATT. He has some articles out on Rwanda you can find on the web.
I would have to say that while Hutu and Tutsi affiliations played a role in this conflict, they were not center stage of the war. The war as it played out between Congolese elements was more a repeat of the very same tensions that erupted in the 1964 Simba rebellion--indeed some of the same players and their progeny were involved. For that conflict as a background look at LP#14. You cannot understand the 98-2003 conflict in the Congo without looking at the 1960-1998 period. The same must be said about Rwanda and the Hutu/Tutsi issue. To fully get the latter you must look even earlier. See books below.1. Was the Second Congo war mainly between A Tutsi dominated Rebel movement vs. a Hutu dominated Congo government with the minor ethnic groups going for either side?
Again I was not there and my info is limited. Mercs started showing up in varying capacities in 95 and the practice continued. Your information sounds about right. You can find more on this conflict at USIP.2. How big were the military commitments by the foreign African countries involved?
My info was that the Ugandans and Rwandans had large numbers of troops in the Congo supporting the Rebs but the Rwandans was in the forefront of spearheading reb attacks while the Ugandans were largely confined to the North East. On the Gov side, the Zimbabewean and Angolan militaries had the most troops but were restricted to the west. The Rebs had no or little air support and the gov side had some air support, mainly from the Zimbabwean and Angolan air forces(piloted by foreign mercs).
I believe that is a complete overstatement. K-Town was a cesspool before the war because of 2 pillages in 91 and 93. Michela Wrong's somewhat fluffy book In the Footsteps of Mr. Kurtz paints a very different picture, one that I find completely believable. A siege requires defenders who fight back--the FAZ disintegrated.3. How bad was the siege of Kinsasha?
From the info I have, Kinsasha resembed Beirut though I think only the outer parts of Kinsasha was under siege.
See my memoirs on the Rwandans and the FAZ.4. What did you think of the quality of the combatants invovled?
I did read that the Rwandans had the best quality troops among the combatants and the Angolan, Zimbabwean and Ugandan troops were the best equiped(they had the tanks and vehicles etc.).
I don't believe that at all. The Rwandans never accepted stalemate and would always go to the flanks (or rear via infiltration). My contacts said that the real issue was walking all that way to K-Town. Once the Zims and Angolans got involved things got more intense.5. What did combat look like on the ground? Was it guerilla mobile combat?
I read that combat was similiar to the Ethiopia Eritea war, something like World war 1 without the extensive trenchlines(combat happened when assaults on enemy fixed positions rather than mobile battles).
Madeleine Kalb, The Congo Cables. This book offers an embassy and State department inside view of the Congo Crisis from 1960-1963 during JFK's administration. Available on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/002...g=UTF8&s=books6. What books would you recomend on the war?
I have War Dog by Al Venter which I thought was good while being sparse and i read the book by Thomas Turner which I thought was also quite sparse.
Thomas P. Odom, Leavenworth Paper #14 Dragon Operations: Hostage Rescues in the Congo 1964-1964. "The Dragon operations in the Congo-Dragon Rouge and Dragon Noir-were the first, and in many ways the most complex, hostage rescue missions of the cold war, Aimed at securing the release of nearly 2,000 European residents taken hostage during the Simba Rebellion in 1964, American aircraft projected a Belgian airborne unit thousands of miles into the heart of Africa. The planning and execution of this mission required the operational cooperation of three nations and their military forces in order to synchronize the arrival of airborne and ground forces to assault a hostile objective. At stake- as usual, and unfortunately- were the lives of innocent men, women, and children." This study though focused on the rescue of hostages in Stanleyville in is set in a counter insurgency war. It examines the rescue in political, military, and social terms against that COIN background. You can read it on line at http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resour.../odom/odom.asp.
Thomas P. Odom, Shaba II: The French and Belgian Military Intervention in Zaire in 1978. This study "presents a historical analysis of the 1978 invasion of Shaba province by the exiled Katangan Gendarmerie. Included in this study is the Western reaction to the invasion, from the Zairian Army's initial response, which set off the massacre of expatriate mine workers, to the airborne landings of French and Belgian forces. The French responded by sending the Foreign Legion into Shaba to restore order in the province. Belgium, on the other hand, sent its Paracommando Regiment on the humanitarian mission of rescuing the hostages. Both countries developed independent plans for their missions, plans that were not coordinated until the two European forces were accidentally shooting at one another. The 1978 operations in Shaba should not be dismissed as something unusual or unlikely to reoccur, nor should they be discounted as European operations of little interest to U.S. planners. Since these Shaba II operations, the United States has been committed to similar operations in Lebanon, Grenada, Sudan, Somalia, Liberia, Panama, and the Persian Gulf. Without doubt, U.S. forces will continue to be involved in such operations, making Shaba II worthy of study by U.S. Army officers." It also delves heavily into the diplomatic and military efforts of the United States in this crisis. You may read it on line at:
http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resour...dom2/odom2.asp.
Thomas P. Odom, Journey Into Darkness: Genocide in Rwanda with foreword by General (ret) Dennis J. Reimer. This memoir covers the author's 15 years as a Foreign Area Officer on the Middle East and Africa with operational tours as a UN Observer in Lebanon and as US Defense Attaché in Zaire and Rwanda. You may read a chapter from the book at http://www.smallwarsjournal.com/docu...om_journey.htm or order it from TAMU Press at http://www.tamu.edu/upress/BOOKS/2005/odom.htm or on Amazon or other on line bookstores.
Fred E. Wagoner, Dragon Rouge: The Rescue of Hostages in the Congo. This is an excellent political-military study of the hostage crisis. Available on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141...g=UTF8&s=books
Robert E. Gribbin, In the Aftermath of Genocide: The U.S. Role in Rwanda. Ambassador Gribbin was the US Ambassador in Rwanda from 1996-1998. Available on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/059...g=UTF8&s=books
Human Rights Watch and FIDH, Leave None to Tell the Story: Genocide in Rwanda. This study is the most detailed on the planning, mechanics, and execution of the genocide. You may read it on line at: http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/rwanda/index.htm - TopOfPage
Shaharyar Khan, The Shallow Graves of Rwanda. Ambassador Khan was the senior UN diplomat in UNAMIR 2. It is available on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/186...g=UTF8&s=books
Mahmood Mamdani, When Victims become Killers. Mamdani's analysis of the genocide as a regional issue is ground breaking. Available on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/069...g=UTF8&s=books
Gérard Prunier, The Rwanda Crisis: History of a Genocide. Prunier offers a first rate analysis of the French role in the genocide. Available on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/023...g=UTF8&s=books
Colin M. Waugh, Paul Kagame and Rwanda. As yet this is the closest there is to a biography of Kagame. Available on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078...g=UTF8&s=books
Michela Wrong, In the Footsteps of Mr. Kurtz. Wrong relates the final collapse of Mobutu's Zaire. Available on Amazon at: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006...g=UTF8&s=books
Kenyatta,
Check here during the time period you're interested in, the articles were based on wire service reports.
http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/ugan.../20011105.aspx
Last edited by AdamG; 05-07-2008 at 02:56 PM.
Tom, Admin
Thank you very much for the hordes of research materal...
According the war Dog, the Rwandan spearheaded offensive towards Kinsasha was aided by airlifts of Rwandan troops to the front in Russian transports. The offensive failed due to the poor supply situation of the rebs and the Zimbabwean and Angolans coming into the fray.
I am quite aware of the seeds of the second Congo war in the Congo Crisis 1960-1965, the fall of Mobutu. Actually the seeds probably go back all the way when Leopold came into the Congo at the turn of the century.
As with other wars, political families, conflicting interests from previous conflicts come back to haunt...my perception originally was that the Tutsi Hutu conflict played a major role in the Second Congo war, probably even fanned the flames more...
that it was a catalyst and a math, absolutely. That it was the cause. No.As with other wars, political families, conflicting interests from previous conflicts come back to haunt...my perception originally was that the Tutsi Hutu conflict played a major role in the Second Congo war, probably even fanned the flames more...
Global Security has a pretty good write up
You are correct about the 2nd War and the halt of the Rwandans--Gribbin's book is pretty good on that issue. I was thinking of the original march to Kinshasa. In any case, I would not describe it as Beirut.
hope it helps and welcome to SWJ
Tom
Tom,
Glad to contribute, all enhances my knowledge too.
Another fallout of the Second Congo War is the current troubles in Zimbabwe.
Mugabe bankrupted Zimbabwe even more and practically crippled the Zim Air force such as it was(due to bad losses during the war).
Mugabe and his cronies were probably the only ones who made money from war(nothing went to the Zimbabwean people except for body bags).
hi man..
i think you are doing a great job over here...
i am very much proud in taking part of this program..
surely i will tell some suggestions regarding making some peaceful world
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks