Page 12 of 27 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 538

Thread: Small War in Mexico: 2002-2015 (closed)

  1. #221
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carl View Post
    The report states the Guard soldier was found dead in Ciudad Juarez. There was no mention of the circumstances of his death nor did the story indicate the soldier was on duty at the time. The will be more details to come I reckon.
    There always is(more details). But the report says he was "Shot dead" along with another man.

  2. #222
    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hiding from the Dreaded Burrito Gang
    Posts
    2,699

    Default

    Run away! - Sir Robin.

    The entire police force in a small Mexican town abruptly resigned Tuesday after its new headquarters was viciously attacked by suspected drug cartel gunmen.

    All 14 police officers in Los Ramones, a rural town in northern Mexico, fled the force in terror after gunmen fired more than 1,000 bullets and flung six grenades at their headquarters on Monday night.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...#ixzz13cnuTBq1
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


    http://i.imgur.com/IPT1uLH.jpg

  3. #223
    Council Member Tom Odom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    DeRidder LA
    Posts
    3,949

    Default America's Third War: Texas Strikes Back

    America's Third War: Texas Strikes Back
    I never thought that wed be in this paramilitary type of engagement. It's a war on the border," said Captain Stacy Holland with the Texas Department of Public Safety.

    Holland leads a fleet of 16 state-of-the-art helicopters that make up the aviation assets used by the Texas DPS to fight Mexican drug cartels.

    In recent years, the cartels have become bolder and more ruthless.
    Backed up by

    the Student Senate at Texas A&M
    and the Hulk and Steven Segal

    Tom

    Class of 1976
    Texas A&M

  4. #224
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Backed up by

    the Student Senate at Texas A&M
    and the Hulk and Steven Segal

    Tom

    Class of 1976
    Texas A&M
    It is most definitely a War.....and we are losing and our fearless leaders (in D.C.) are completely clueless about it....or just don't care

  5. #225
    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hiding from the Dreaded Burrito Gang
    Posts
    2,699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Odom View Post
    Steven Segal is a pretty heavy hitter... (and I do mean heavy).


    I'll be in town all weekend, folks. Try the chicken!

    Meanwhile, the Mexican Navy (Marines) to the rescue -
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...?docId=5143826

    *
    Also

    Gulf cartel members tried to mount a rescue operation for the criminal organization’s leader, Ezequiel Cardenas Guillen, who was killed last week by Mexican marines, a navy spokesman said.

    Cartel gunmen used moving vehicles and sharpshooters positioned on rooftops to try to rescue Cardenas, known as “Tony Tormenta,” during the operation mounted by marines Friday in the northeastern border city of Matamoros, navy spokesman Rear Adm. Jose Luis Vergara said.

    The shootout with the drug boss and his bodyguards lasted nearly three hours.

    The cartel’s gunmen tried to break through the security perimeter established by marines to rescue Cardenas, Vergara said.
    http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/1...men-tried.html
    Last edited by AdamG; 11-18-2010 at 05:26 PM.
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


    http://i.imgur.com/IPT1uLH.jpg

  6. #226
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Good article by John P. Sullivan from the Small Wars Journal. IMO it provides a better description of what the enemy actually looks like and what they will evolve into. Except John's an optimist IMO could be much worse


    http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/200...riminal-insur/

  7. #227
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Take a look at what the Mexican drug Cartel looks like H/T to John Robb at GG for posting the link.


    http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662638/...an-drug-cartel

  8. #228
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    To fit into the Clausewitz argument - how are the attempts to stop drug importation into the U.S. in any way comparable to war?

  9. #229
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tequila View Post
    To fit into the Clausewitz argument - how are the attempts to stop drug importation into the U.S. in any way comparable to war?
    Think of Cartels/Gangs as Countries willing to use violence to enforce their policy of selling drugs in our country is OK.

  10. #230
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    So the Sinaloa Cartel = the UK during the Opium Wars?

    I find the analogy a very difficult one to buy. Was Canada engaged in de facto war against the U.S. during Prohibition? Was the Chicago Outfit?

  11. #231
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tequila View Post
    So the Sinaloa Cartel = the UK during the Opium Wars?

    I find the analogy a very difficult one to buy. Was Canada engaged in de facto war against the U.S. during Prohibition? Was the Chicago Outfit?
    If you use violence against a "Policy" of the US or any Government it is war, but because it is what you might call Low Intensity Conflict it is often not viewed as War. And remember this is my interpretation of how I think it might be viewed through the Lens of CvC. My personal opinion is somewhat different.

  12. #232
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    But does the Cartel use systematic violence against the U.S. Government as a policy?

    One could argue that it is doing so in Mexico against the Mexican government, but the overwhelming majority of victims of Cartel violence are in fact opposing Cartel members.

  13. #233
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tequila View Post
    But does the Cartel use systematic violence against the U.S. Government as a policy?

    One could argue that it is doing so in Mexico against the Mexican government, but the overwhelming majority of victims of Cartel violence are in fact opposing Cartel members.
    1-The Cartel uses selective violence against the US as a policy.

    2-But in general (and this is what I believe) they engage in "Special Warfare" which is much worse than the CvC version.
    Last edited by slapout9; 11-18-2010 at 10:57 PM. Reason: spellin stuff

  14. #234
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    2-But in general (and this is what I believe) they engage in "Special Warfare" which is much worse than the CvC version.
    What does this mean?

  15. #235
    Council Member AdamG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hiding from the Dreaded Burrito Gang
    Posts
    2,699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tequila View Post
    To fit into the Clausewitz argument - how are the attempts to stop drug importation into the U.S. in any way comparable to war?
    The Texan answer :

    To combat the cartels, the Texas Department of Public Safety is launching a counterinsurgency.

    To combat the cartels, the Texas Department of Public Safety is launching a counterinsurgency.

    Tactical strike teams send field intelligence they gather to Austin to a joint operation intelligence center, or JOIC in military terminology.

    “It certainly is a war in a sense that we’re doing what we can to protect Texans and the rest of the nation from clearly a threat that has emerged over the last several years,” said Former FBI prosecutor Steve McCraw, who runs the undeclared "war."
    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/18...#ixzz15jqUarzb
    A scrimmage in a Border Station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten-rupee jezail


    http://i.imgur.com/IPT1uLH.jpg

  16. #236
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tequila View Post
    What does this mean?
    They are organized very much like a resistance movement. They have a Guerrilla force, they have an auxiliary, they have an underground and they have a command and control element(s).

  17. #237
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    I am unimpressed by the remarkably undetailed Fox News piece, which seems intended more to generate publicity for the Texas Department of Public Safety than anything else. To call such an effort a "counterinsurgency" is to mangle the term beyond meaning.

    They are organized very much like a resistance movement. They have a Guerrilla force, they have an auxiliary, they have an underground and they have a command and control element(s).
    Really? So, again, how are they different from other criminal organizations which employ violence against their rivals or the local population (and in the overwhelming majority of cases avoid violence against agents of the state)? Shall we begin qualifying all criminal organizations as resistance movements engaged in "special warfare?" Also, if drug smuggling qualifies as "special warfare", I have a hard time seeing how this is somehow much worse in any way than war as fought by insurgent movements, much less between states. Certainly the U.S. side of the Mexican border is not seeing anything remotely similar to the carnage occurring monthly in, for example, Iraq.

    My problem with calling law enforcement "war" is (1) the mangling of definitions - crime is not war, and criminals are not warriors or soldiers (2) criminal offenses do not require military solutions - indeed, military solutions will often make the problem worse or create problems where there were none before.
    Last edited by tequila; 11-19-2010 at 04:12 PM.

  18. #238
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tequila View Post
    Really? So, again, how are they different from other criminal organizations which employ violence against their rivals or the local population (and in the overwhelming majority of cases avoid violence against agents of the state)? Shall we begin qualifying all criminal organizations as resistance movements engaged in "special warfare?" Also, if drug smuggling qualifies as "special warfare", I have a hard time seeing how this is somehow much worse in any way than war as fought by insurgent movements, much less between states. Certainly the U.S. side of the Mexican border is not seeing anything remotely similar to the carnage occurring monthly in, for example, Iraq.

    My problem with calling law enforcement "war" is (1) the mangling of definitions - crime is not war, and criminals are not warriors or soldiers (2) criminal offenses do not require military solutions - indeed, military solutions will often make the problem worse or create problems where there were none before.
    1-Whenever armed foreign nationals cross our border and commit violence against the citizens of the US that is war regardless of how small the actual combat may be.

    2-It is special warfare because they are not uniformed regular forces representing the Mexican government, but it is war for the reason I stated above.

    3-Crimes are committed by citizens inside their own country.

    4-In many ways resistance movements are organized exactly like criminal organizations, the difference is the motive profit vs. a political motive.

    5-Since you are a Marine instead of calling it special warfare it might make more sense to think of it like 4GW as described by TX Hammes.

    I think I covered all your points, if not ask some questions.

  19. #239
    Council Member tequila's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,665

    Default

    1-Whenever armed foreign nationals cross our border and commit violence against the citizens of the US that is war regardless of how small the actual combat may be.
    I disagree. A Mexican hitman crossing the border to kill a American dope dealer does not constitute Mexico leveling war upon the United States, just as the existence of Edgar Valdez Villarreal ("La Barbie") does not constitute a war upon Mexico.

    In many ways resistance movements are organized exactly like criminal organizations, the difference is the motive profit vs. a political motive.
    Yes, but Clausewitz did not note that war was an extension of economics.

    5-Since you are a Marine instead of calling it special warfare it might make more sense to think of it like 4GW as described by TX Hammes.
    I'm not a fan of the 4GW construct. I think it clouds the debate more than it illuminates.

    DTOs are not terrorist groups or nation-states. They are essentially smuggling organizations who use borders to charge rents to international customers. They have no political motive beyond seeking official noninterference in their business activities. The only thing that makes an analogy with war even partially feasible is the level of violence they can generate, which is more a commentary on the weakness of the Mexican state than a note on the strength of the DTOs themselves.

  20. #240
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    4,818

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    2-It is special warfare because they are not uniformed regular forces representing the Mexican government, but it is war for the reason I stated above.
    Did you read #2 and special warfare combines economics, subversion,propagnda and anything else they can use that is why it is called special warfare.

    I agree with you Clausewitz was not an economistI couldn't help it.

Similar Threads

  1. Aviation in COIN (merged thread)
    By SWJED in forum Catch-All, Military Art & Science
    Replies: 399
    Last Post: 11-28-2017, 07:42 PM
  2. Disarming the Local Population
    By CSC2005 in forum Doctrine & TTPs
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-08-2006, 01:10 PM
  3. Training for Small Wars
    By SWJED in forum RFIs & Members' Projects
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-02-2005, 06:50 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •