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Thread: Force Structure for Small Wars

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  1. #1
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Good post, Norfolk

    Quote Originally Posted by Norfolk View Post
    ... if the HIC role was mostly transferred to the RC, just how long would it take to bring said Heavy forces up to snuff in MCO? Six months?
    Many variables but basically using today's training methods, from 120 days to 180. With improved training, it could be done pretty well in 90 to 120. With improved and realistic training (not likely, due to a high a casualty rate) in 60 to 90 days.
    ...just to throw a monkey in the wrench (as this is most unlikely, but I'm drawing it to try to make a point), suppose an RC HIC force was pitted against a force of near-equal, equal, or even superior fighting quality?
    Probably the same thing that would happen if an active HIC force ran into such an opponent -- all other things being equal they'd get whupped.
    ... It takes not months, not a few years, but several years at least to fully come to grips with, not just "passably", but with real proficiency.
    Disagree -- it takes years in peacetime the way most of us now train, in wartime in CONUS, months. Actually in war, it takes weeks to a month or so, individual dependent (see Hoffmeister, B).
    ...The RC manoeuvre brigades sent to ODS did not go into battle, and for good reason. Even with the six months' "grace" period that the Coalition was gifted with by the Iraqis, the RC combat brigades were not up to the job.
    Having been directly involved in that fiasco, I regret to say you're incorrect -- the decision not to send them was a dumb political decision by the then CofSA and the DCSOPS at DA -- who famously said "Not in my Army..." The 48th Mech Bde got a Go from the NTC the day before the cease fire -- DA refused to certify them for deployment (a statutory requirement to preclude your concern of unready RC units in theaters) on the basis "the war's over." They were deployment capable and would've done okay -- not great but okay. The Army simply did not want that to happen so it did not (per Ski above and peacetime money flow issues; recall that to this day, the Pentagon has not been at war since 1945).
    ...composed in the main of regular (not Light) Infantry Formations may be more suitable to make up the bulk of the AC force structure, as they can perform in LIC and MIC with barely skipping a beat (if properly led and trained), won't break the procurement budget, and are best suited to most of the tasks that the Army is likely to face anyway. "Light" forces are probably best restricted to dedicated Parachute and Mountain formations, for the most part, and of course SF.
    Agreed
    ...(there seems little reason, other than training funds of course, for Parachute and Mountain units and formations to not be of the same quality as Ranger Battalions); Airmobile can be handled just fine by regular Infantry Formations, when the need to perform such operations arises.
    True dat.

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    Must also pile on about the Desert Storm fiasco. The 48th Brigade was ready to go, and was held up at NTC by the HQDA leadership. Even now there is great reluctance to use ARNG BCT's as "COIN" units, and the 5 BCT's we send to OIF/OEF every year are assigned ####ty SECFOR missions that the AC does not want to get involved in...

    As far as creating a RC based HIC Corps - it would take about 90-120 days (if resourced properly) to get them up to speed. Remember that the American Army's Reserve Component has far more combat experience that any other Active Army in the world - minus the UK, Canada, Australia and possibly France. You can argue about what kind of experience they've learned, but just being exposed to the elephant counts a great deal against a force that has not seen combat.

    I really like the idea of creating a HIC Corps+ based around III Corps and then the 7 ARNG HBCT's. Keep them out of the misama's of Iraq and Afghanistan at all costs - start flowing the resources into the ARNG so they only take 90 days to get out the door (not hard to do, I've built models with my brethren at FORSCOM and 1st Army that shows it can be done). You now have a mailed fist capable of counterattacking any state based enemy such as Iran, NK, etc...
    "Speak English! said the Eaglet. "I don't know the meaning of half those long words, and what's more, I don't believe you do either!"

    The Eaglet from Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland

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