EFPs; the new AK-47?

[Rank amateur]

Thanks Stan. Very interesting.

I have to agree with Abu, here. In my guise as an Airplane mechanic, I come into contact with many talented machinists who can make absolutely *anything*, regardless of the available equipment.

I agree, but after two minutes on wikipaedia my list of amateur expertises now includes metallurgy. annealing of the cap is complicated and it's needed to increase ductility.

If I understand correctly, and it's possible that I don't, if they don't change the metallurgical properties of the copper disk, it'll fracture instead of producing the shape needed to puncture armor. (Or at least heavy armor.) If the cap is the production bottleneck, however, I'm sure Iran is stockpiling them in dispersed locations and there's no reason Iran couldn't have people smuggle the caps in their pocket and have the rest of the device made locally.

[Stan]

Thanks Stan. Very interesting.



I agree, but after two minutes on wikipaedia my list of amateur expertises now includes metallurgy. annealing of the cap is complicated and it's needed to increase ductility.

If I understand correctly, and it's possible that I don't, if they don't change the metallurgical properties of the copper disk, it'll fracture instead of producing the shape needed to puncture armor. (Or at least heavy armor.) If the cap is the production bottleneck, however, I'm sure Iran is stockpiling them in dispersed locations and there's no reason Iran couldn't have people smuggle the caps in their pocket and have the rest of the device made locally.

RA, I don't have my A&P like 120 obviously does, but as a professional mechanic in strange places (countries), we heat the material, perhaps hammer for annealing and quench... and.... voila

EDIT: Rapid cooling will create harder metal and slow cooling will result in a softer material.

Regards, Stan

[J.C.]

Talking about diameters, hiding, and logistics we just found a real piece of work in my AO today. The quality was class A work. 10 in diameter made to look like Iraqi curbs. I if you've been to urban centers in Iraq you will have probably seen their curds. They look like 1 1/2 foot by 3 feet cubes. the problem is they are torn up every where and then placed on top of the medians. During an average patrol I will see any where between 35-50 of these blocks in the medians of Known EFP areas.

Whats more scary is they have hidden the command wires using the spiders web of Iraqi electrical grids occansionally almost making them impossible to spot and run them back to a safe vantage point. The worst I have seen is a single array ( 1 fake block) with 4 8in plates inside with 2 single array 10 in kickers placed around. We would have had a real bad day had they not been found.

Some are so well hidden that they blend in seamlessly with damaged curbs and use a PIR sensor with time delay to catch the later vicks in a convoy.
Others which are made of class A stuff have been set upwards of 30 ft of the road or placed behind Alaska barriers!! No way to see the device or command wire. Trust me they will go through it, they will then go through our armor.

EFPs are a shia weapons, never seen a Sunni EFP, maybe a crappy shape charge, but not an EFP. Another fun fact EFPs where developed by a west pointer for use in oil drilling to punch through difficult rock and give less back blast and heat. Imagine that oil bitting us in the butt agian.

Logistical all the quality stuff is importated, sometimes in components. But, thats rare and we can tie those to high level guys known to have had training out of country some where to the east I've also seen mosques used as drop of points as well as cars as mobile cashe. The machinary to make the disk is also limited or the expertise. Through CSI stuff you can often trace the disk like bullets back to the same press or milling machine.

Someone mention quick drop off, it takes 2 minitues to set up a LRCT EFP. They see you coming cause misdirection and place it, bad day ensues.

[Stan]

Good Post, JC !

Talking about diameters, hiding, and logistics we just found a real piece of work in my AO today. The quality was class A work. 10 in diameter made to look like Iraqi curbs.

As I recall from a 06 report, CEXC's IED analysts not only found concrete street-side curbing, but also rendered safe sheep and dog carcasses

[120mm]

Thanks Stan. Very interesting.



I agree, but after two minutes on wikipaedia my list of amateur expertises now includes metallurgy. annealing of the cap is complicated and it's needed to increase ductility.

If I understand correctly, and it's possible that I don't, if they don't change the metallurgical properties of the copper disk, it'll fracture instead of producing the shape needed to puncture armor. (Or at least heavy armor.) If the cap is the production bottleneck, however, I'm sure Iran is stockpiling them in dispersed locations and there's no reason Iran couldn't have people smuggle the caps in their pocket and have the rest of the device made locally.

Without going into it in detail, I can think of at least three ways you can precisely anneal a copper disk to varying degrees, using cheap, and/or free materials. I would need to waste about three EFPs to make it "right".

But that's all I'm going to say about that. A good machinist who knows basic metallurgy could turn out EFPs pretty easy, provided he had the luxury of being able to waste some material doing testing.

[Rank amateur]

Without going into it in detail, I can think of at least three ways you can precisely anneal a copper disk to varying degrees, using cheap, and/or free materials. I would need to waste about three EFPs to make it "right".

You convinced me.

For the record I have no interest in amateur EOD.