EFPs; the new AK-47?

[Merv Benson]

Moderator's Note

Thread closed as there is new, main thread 'IEDs: the home-made bombs that changed modern war': http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ad.php?t=16303


This post describes a new bomb that will be used offensively and defensively. the offensive uses are obvious and their is a link to one being used to destroy an F-14. Defensively it is anticipated the material will be used to shield against incoming mortars and rockets. The post is based on a Popular Mechanics story.

[Van]

A thought presents itself, and I welcome criticism, discussion, rude gestures, etc. with regard to it.

In the 1950s and 1960s, if you wanted to arm an insurgency, you brought a bunch of WW II surplus arms (Mauser '98s, M-1 Carbines, etc).
In the 1970s and 1980s, you brought a bunch of AK-47s,
In the 1990s, RPG-7s were the gold standard for insurgents (Somalia and Chechnya leap to mind)
Currently in Iraq, EFPs seem to fill the role of the cheap, mass-produced, and effective weapon.

Is this a special case or will EFPs fill this role for a while? Why?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosi...med_penetrator
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Internatio...4837262&page=1
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/12/wo...dad&ei=5087%0A

[Adam L]

Is this a special case or will EFPs fill this role for a while? Why?

I assume for the purpose of this discussion we are only dealing with the insurgency aimed at us versus the fighting amongst Iraqi groups. Yes, in many ways the EFP fills this role. The EFP allows the enemy to engage us with minimal conflict and effort. On the other hand, if it were not for the large amount of snipers and regular insurgents with AK-47s and RPGs, we would not need to be in the vehicles, designed to protect us, which in turn make us so vulnerable to EFPs. If we could walk around on foot more often I doubt that EFPs would be that big a deal. On the other hand, anti-personel mines would most likely fill their role. I do believe anti-personel mines qualify as "cheap, mass-produced, and effective weapon."

Do I believe EFPs will remain in this role for a while? Yes, they are very effective and there isn't that much we can do about them except get into bigger more cumbersome vehicles.

To sum it up I would have to say that I feel they all fit together as a package (AK-47s, RPG-7s and EFPs.) This package is what is making our situation so difficult to deal with.

Adam L

[Van]

I assume for the purpose of this discussion we are only dealing with the insurgency aimed at us versus the fighting amongst Iraqi groups.

As an example, yes, but I'm thinking more broadly. Does it seem likely that EFPs will become as common among relatively low-tech, relatively low budget insurgents opposing technologically enabled forces, especially motorized/mechanized units like Russians in Grozny, U.S. in Iraq, or Israeli's in Lebanon. Think general case.

Your point about EFPs as parrt of a bigger picture is well taken.

[Adam L]

I would have to say that I believe that EFPs will become as common as any of the other mentioned weapons on the battlefield. EFPs are remarkably low-tech devices. This unfortunately means it will not be long until the skills and knowledge necessary for the construction of such devices will be all too common. It is quite frightening when you think about it. The most disturbing thing about it is that even though we are developing armor to counteract such devices, I am pessimistic that they will remain effective for very long. The ability of these devices to focus and direct the power of the charge is truly awesome and terrifying.

Adam L

[J.C.]

I know its assumed the ieds are cheap and often simple to make, but in the case of EFPs its really not that true.

High quality efps are fairly expensive to make and show a good level of sifistication. In my Ao EFPs have been responsible for all most all of the casualties, but the are least plentiful type of IED you will find. The reason they acctually take a decent bit of engineering to make and quite a bit of skill to disguise effectively.

In many efps cooper plates are milled or machine on industrial machinery. Their casings are designed and aimed to set in preformed foam blocks with lasers and telimitrey devices on cut outs in detial of CF vehicles. Many times after that they are cased in a vineer of chicken wire/concrete. They will be set often with different angles in the same casing to inflict maximal damage at critical points they have found or know to be weak on our armor. Or made to hit certian types of CF vehicles.

The cheap ones made by the guys with little skill and in our AO (the high quality efps being made by others or those trained by a less than freindly country) are not effective or fail to go off in the designed manner or just are found becuse they are so poorly made.

In essence, the EFP isn't a weapon that can just be made around the block it often is a very select few who can and have the right equipment. Their not cheap, I've seen the threat stream reporting and what they have paid for them and you could buy a whole hell of alot of AKs for the good ones.