By the way, I really like the phrase "latte leftism" which I just invented and I intend to copyright it. Failing that, I am at least going to lick it so that no one else will want it.
By the way, I really like the phrase "latte leftism" which I just invented and I intend to copyright it. Failing that, I am at least going to lick it so that no one else will want it.
selil may be right, he may be a "putz." But I read the article, and as abrasive as it was it did bring up some points that merit serious discussion on this blog; e.g., the theoretical underpinnings to political power and military structure; the link between the military, the political, and academic departments.
gentile
Last edited by Tom Odom; 05-29-2008 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Wonk thought control
That's treading awfully close to attacking the
commenter rather than the comment. Mayhap beyond close. Your point may be germane but it could've been better stated, I think.
Disregard all before "huh" due to timely edit
Last edited by Ken White; 05-29-2008 at 05:58 PM.
Agreed and I deleted the second half. Probably get to read about it on another blog...Originally Posted by Ken White
True. I guess it just set me off because of the arrogant tone--"I'd wave a few citations at the War College students and make them see the error of their ways." I also got a whiff of the notion that anyone who sees military power differently than Prof McKenna is either brainwashed or bought.
Brian McKenna
Brian McKenna was born and raised in Philadelphia, Pa., where he received a B.A. in communication arts and an M.A. in anthropology from Temple University. While in Philadelphia, he worked to shape public policy as a health analyst for the United Way's Community Services Planning Council and began a side career as a freelance journalist (City Paper, New York Guardian, University City Review). Before leaving Philadelphia for Michigan in 1991 to pursue his Ph.D. at MSU in medical anthropology, he taught political science and did a stint as development specialist for NPR's Fresh Air with Terry Gross. McKenna completed his Ph.D. in 1998 and has coordinated a groundbreaking study on Lansing-area environmental health for the Ingham County Health Department for the past three years. His study on our water will be published this summer (2001). He also taught a graduate class at MSU last fall titled, Anthropology, Health and the Environment.
Interesting anecdote is that one of the Michigan universities sociology program is known as the Michigan Mafia. Home of Tilly. From what I've seen they are horribly leftist, and extremely antagonistic and virulently anti "breakdown theorist". As a group from what I've read they basically use academic assassination to get their point across as part of the "resource mobilization" theory. Not sure it is the same University but seems like the same tactics.
I have now exhausted the three brain cells I saved from my doctoral sociology course excursions last semester.. May all three RIP.
Sam Liles
Selil Blog
Don't forget to duck Secret Squirrel
The scholarship of teaching and learning results in equal hatred from latte leftists and cappuccino conservatives.
All opinions are mine and may or may not reflect those of my employer depending on the chance it might affect funding, politics, or the setting of the sun. As such these are my opinions you can get your own.
I have no problem with ardent leftists. Heck some of my favorite fellow graduate students and professors considered themselves Trotskyites. I admire their passion and, coming from a blue collar Appalachian background, understand their anger. It just gets my dander up when someone suggests that anyone who thinks differently is misguided or nefarious, or both.
That has been one of my issues too. One of my sociology professors was a break down theorist so we read several dozen papers looking at resource mobilization versus breakdown. The RM group were nasty, vindictive, and generally wrote with an evil zeal that was distasteful. The one sided nature of the nastiness was pretty obvious and not apparently selection bias.
Then I read a round robin slug fest between Anderson and LaQuant and whether "Code of the street" was an ethnography. It became apparent to me that on the other side of the science, way over there, they had a lot to say but most of it was pretty mean and useless to me. The ideas were intriguing. There was a massive amount of value to my research and opening new perspectives on how technology interacts to support some of my theoretical base. The packaging though could be pretty petty.
There is an Army Major hiding in the background of SWJ/C that took the one class with me. He has a LOT more perspective on the topic than I do since it was his core discipline. I though was left with a feeling that the social/anthropological sciences are pretty nasty to each other.
Sam Liles
Selil Blog
Don't forget to duck Secret Squirrel
The scholarship of teaching and learning results in equal hatred from latte leftists and cappuccino conservatives.
All opinions are mine and may or may not reflect those of my employer depending on the chance it might affect funding, politics, or the setting of the sun. As such these are my opinions you can get your own.
Kissinger nailed it when he said, "University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small." I've seen blood spilled over whose parking place was six steps closer to the building or whose office was ten square feet bigger.
There was a bit of a flurry, this thread was temporarily closed with some posts deleted. In the light of a fine Sat AM, here's the current status:
1) Pretty unambiguous that Multi-skilled leader was way more arrogant and offensive in his tirade than he needed to be. The little red card is an infraction. He needs to add, to his multiple skills, tact and the ability to more effectively influence people.
2) At the core of his message (we think, in hindsight), beyond the petty attacks, he echoes the concerns we have as operators of this forum over getting to be too much of an old boys club, set in our norms, etc. This forum only works if it is open, tolerant to new messages and new messengers.
3) We have undone some of the deletes, and neatened things up to continue the discussion. With that done, this can of worms is re-opened.
It is hard enough to hear criticism and grow from it. It's a lot harder to not close ranks when then criticism is couched in a ridiculously petty assault, in particular when blessed with the God-like powers of forum administrators to make things go away. We do not wish to be parochial or self-serving.
Please continue (or, some cases, start) to discuss the issues in a civil, professional, and open manner. Including the issue of whether we're in a rut. All is on the table. Just do it more multi-skillfully.
----
SWJED & SWCADMIN
(Dave & Bill)
Hi Gian,
I think part of the problem is with the specific theoretical underpinnings he chose. One of my main problems with Marxian theology is that it all rests on St. Karl's flawed theory of the value of labour. At the same time, it has also focused so heavily on production side economics that it has, in many ways, forgotten distribution (at least in its classic forms). As for Gramsci, I far prefer Luigi Sturzo if we are talking about Italian Sociologists...
Gian, just out of interest, what would you use for such an examination?
Marc
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
Senior Research Fellow,
The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
Carleton University
http://marctyrrell.com/
I wasn't taking issue with that--I've read Prison Notebooks. It was an important and interesting work. What set me off was the implication that he's so smart that he'd throw a few intellectual bon mots at a room full of war college students and they'd see the errors of their way and recognize that they are tools of imperialism.
I guess this struck a nerve because I am intimately familiar with both military professionals and latte leftists, and therefore know which have better understanding of the reality of the world and have used that to develop a ethical code.
Hi Steve,
I've read them too and, honestly, didn't find them that interesting at all. A lot of the points he makes were made in earlier works.
Oh, I agree with that! The arrogance he displays is, IMO, quite humourous in its scope - that's why I suggested you actually invite him(okay, I have a viscious sense of humour - just make sure you post the videos on YouTube!!!!).
Again, I don't disagree with you. I think it would be interesting to dig into the power relationships, as Gian noted, but to do it in a way that as far as possible tries to avoid the theological stridency of Marxism or any other theoretical model.
Sic Bisquitus Disintegrat...
Marc W.D. Tyrrell, Ph.D.
Institute of Interdisciplinary Studies,
Senior Research Fellow,
The Canadian Centre for Intelligence and Security Studies, NPSIA
Carleton University
http://marctyrrell.com/
Marc, Steve,
Perhaps we could all help the good professor by investigating the Ygoloporhtna cult.
John Wolfsberger, Jr.
An unruffled person with some useful skills.
Ok given his background how about we ask him to serve on a PRT or HTT helping retore the marsh Arab's way of life after Saddam's draining of the area in post DS to punish the Shia; that would allow him to use his expertise OUTSIDE the US.Hi Steve,
I've read them too and, honestly, didn't find them that interesting at all. A lot of the points he makes were made in earlier works.
Oh, I agree with that! The arrogance he displays is, IMO, quite humourous in its scope - that's why I suggested you actually invite him
Again, I don't disagree with you. I think it would be interesting to dig into the power relationships, as Gian noted, but to do it in a way that as far as possible tries to avoid the theological stridency of Marxism or any other theoretical model.
Then let him speak to the War College.
Tom
Last edited by Tom Odom; 05-30-2008 at 05:43 PM.
Several people have suggested that but I'm not inclined to waste the time of a buch of war college students just to teach the guy a lesson. I personally have never been in a war college class where I felt I was the smartest guy in the room (or a CGSC class for that matter). I suspect that would be a shocking revelation to him.Oh, I agree with that! The arrogance he displays is, IMO, quite humourous in its scope - that's why I suggested you actually invite him
Sadly, I doubt it would register in the way that you would hope that it did--he would likely just presume that his day-with-your-class was insufficient to excavate through all the false consciousness...
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks