Saving their Souls in Fallujah?

[Sarajevo071]

The unformulated question in my mind is could this be an example of America producing our own radical Christian analog to Al Queda?

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

[SWJED]

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

... Sarajevo. No, if you think that "Jesus Camp" is representative of our culture you'd be mistaken by magnitudes.

[marct]

Do you mean something like this?

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

... Sarajevo. No, if you think that "Jesus Camp" is representative of our culture you'd be mistaken by magnitudes.

Great to see you back! The "Jesus Camp" stuff is definitely not representative of US culture - far be it from me to say what is . So, what are the Safali and Wahabi boards saying about the incident?

Marc

[Rex Brynen]

Sarajevo's point, however, was that the film depicted "our own [US] radical Christian analog to Al Queda," not that it was representative of US mainstream culture.

(Of course, despite some of the statements on the film, the camp's graduates don't typically engage in mass-casualty attacks on civilians.)

[Sarajevo071]

Sarajevo's point, however, was that the film depicted "our own [US] radical Christian analog to Al Queda," not that it was representative of US mainstream culture.

THANK YOU !

Finally someone will read and understand words without having his bias implying something that was NOT said.

[Adam L]

Sarajevo's point, however, was that the film depicted "our own [US] radical Christian analog to Al Queda," not that it was representative of US mainstream culture.

(Of course, despite some of the statements on the film, the camp's graduates don't typically engage in mass-casualty attacks on civilians.)

Good point.

What scares me about people who can be manipulated so easily is that I'm not sure how much it would take to get them to do something. I'm not saying they are going to pick up crowbars and start killing Muslims off the bat, but little stuff. Even being manipulated to look the other way scares me. When looking at the videos out of some mega churches, what worries a lot of people overseas (and here) is not that people are radical right now, but rather how easily manipulated they are or appear to be. They wonder what would happen if tomorrow or twenty years from now their minister starts preaching that they go out and smash the windows (or kill) of a ________ (Circle one: Muslim, Hindu, etc.) What I think is feeding these perceptions in the ME is that they look at us and they see themselves.

Although I believe this is very untrue for a very large majority of the population, I worry about those few who are that malleable. All it takes is a few radicals and enough people who are indifferent too or afraid and so remain neutral.

It's not just in the religious right that many people see it, I see the same thing happening in the far left. It's just another form of fundamentalism.

I have to state that in no way do I think we are anywhere near this now, but in a generation or two I worry about it. Again, nothing on the level of Al Qaeda, but I start to worry. (I am stating that I am in no way saying US mainstream culture is like this, but after watching some of they guys on tv in the middle of the night I can understand how one might think that.)

Adam L

[Sarajevo071]

I have to state that in no way do I think we are anywhere near this now, but in a generation or two I worry about it. Again, nothing on the level of Al Qaeda, but I start to worry. (I am stating that I am in no way saying US mainstream culture is like this, but after watching some of they guys on tv in the middle of the night I can understand how one might think that.)

Adam L

As long those people have U.S. Military to do fighting and killing for them there is no need for any Christian militia to start doing that on they own... If one have state apparatus and power behind him, there is no need to have revenge groups like that. Saying that, you are completely right pointing on those groups who are crawling on late night tv and calling for Armagedon.

My opinion is, they are looking for official U.S. policy to support them and stand behind them (something like Jewish state behind zionist policy) with they military and financial support. Something maybe McCain can do since he openly welcomed John Hagee support... Not to say that Obama or Clinton are against supporting zionist or neocon policy without any question. They are ready stated such in they recent speeches.

I think, we all have many reasons to be afraid all of that.

[marct]

Hi Sarajevo,

As long those people have U.S. Military to do fighting and killing for them there is no need for any Christian militia to start doing that on they own... If one have state apparatus and power behind him, there is no need to have revenge groups like that. Saying that, you are completely right pointing on those groups who are crawling on late night tv and calling for Armagedon.

That's a very good point, especially since it deals with one possible interpretation of what is happening. I can certainly see how such a view could easily be spun in a media campaign, regardless of any truth to it. Personally, I have suspicions regarding the initial motivations of the neo-cons for going into Iraq; suspicions that really haven't been set at ease by some of the recent "I wasn't MY fault" books (not the Feith comes to mind, but...).

At the same time, I really think that the vast majority of the US population thinks that these Christian "militias" (and I really don't like that term because it implies discipline and a willingness to suffer) are a bunch of twits. On a personal level, I've had run ins with two of them and, IMO, their "leaders" are power hungry materialists while many of their followers are deluded fools. As such, I suspect they are a god analog for fanatical splinter groups everywhere; they just haven't had to put their lives or material comfort on the line, and I doubt that the majority of them will .

At the same time, there are a (larger) number of Christian sects that I have run across who truly practice what they preach but do not support or condone violence (as a note, I've also run a cross a number of Muslims who are exact analogs of them). People who have a strong, personal relationship with their god(s) tend not to be threatened by others who believe differently .

Marc

[Adam L]

As long those people have U.S. Military to do fighting and killing for them there is no need for any Christian militia to start doing that on they own... If one have state apparatus and power behind him, there is no need to have revenge groups like that. Saying that, you are completely right pointing on those groups who are crawling on late night tv and calling for Armagedon.

I was referring to having them go out and commit violence here in the US. This has nothing to do with revenge. There doesn't really even have to be logic behind it at all. My point was that people are becoming more and more easily manipulated and controlled. People are getting more and more desperate to be, and reamain, "happy." "Happiness", is like a drug. It is very complex, but it is something most people will do almost anything to avoid losing. We like to act otherwise, but people will ignore and/or do some pretty horrible things to maintain that state.

Sareajevo71, there are two recruiting methods here in the US for radicals. The first is the classic kind where a group goes out and finds someone down on their luck and gives them stuff and then tries to convert them to their cause. Ironically, they try to convert people using the methods a lot of religions have and do utilize. The second is pretty much the same except people aren't really down on their luck. It is very easy to convert (to a cause) board, disinterested and unsatisfied people. A lot of people just can't deal with the meaninglessness and dull character of everyday life. Look at how many people are on Prozac. It's not that everyone is clinically depressed. The more radical ideologies, whether religious or secular, often give a great sense of meaning and purpose.

Adam L

My opinion is, they are looking for official U.S. policy to support them and stand behind them (something like Jewish state behind zionist policy) with they military and financial support. Something maybe McCain can do since he openly welcomed John Hagee support... Not to say that Obama or Clinton are against supporting zionist or neocon policy without any question. They are ready stated such in they recent speeches.

I think, we all have many reasons to be afraid all of that.

I really disagree with this. More what is happening is that they will vote for anyone who will take a hard line stance at creating what they believe the bible is telling them to do about the ME. I'm starting to wonder if the reason some of the far far out guys want people to support Obama and Clinton, is because they want more conflict. I don't think this is unreasonable thing to say. After Pat Robertson went after Ariel Sharon, saying his stroke was G-d punishing him if I remember correctly, for pulling settlers out of the territories and having talks.

Adam L

[Sarajevo071]

... Sarajevo. No, if you think that "Jesus Camp" is representative of our culture you'd be mistaken by magnitudes.

Where did I said that!?

[marct]

Where did I said that!?

You didn't say that . It's a really good example of how extremist groups can come to be seen as "representative" of a culture, especially when they aren't . Actually, it's a good example of how stereotyping works, especially when there is a propaganda message associated with the stereotype. That, quoth he taking the conversation back to the Fallujah Affair, is why I was asking about what was being said on the Safali boards.

Marc

[Sarajevo071]

You didn't say that . It's a really good example of how extremist groups can come to be seen as "representative" of a culture, especially when they aren't . Actually, it's a good example of how stereotyping works, especially when there is a propaganda message associated with the stereotype. That, quoth he taking the conversation back to the Fallujah Affair, is why I was asking about what was being said on the Safali boards.

Marc

Oh, one can easy imagine what they saying, right?! That is clear proof of "Americans trying to convert Muslims", "they are finally admitting what they are doing all this years", etc. Same old rhetoric from people who self appoint them self to safe guard religion... Never actually explaining if one is strong in they beliefs and have knowledge, why would one be afraid of someone else's talk or beliefs!?

[marct]

Hi Sarajevo,

Oh, one can easy imagine what they saying, right?! That is clear proof of "Americans trying to convert Muslims", "they are finally admitting what they are doing all this years", etc. Same old rhetoric from people who self appoint them self to safe guard religion... Never actually explaining if one is strong in they beliefs and have knowledge, why would one be afraid of someone else's talk or beliefs!?

Ah yes, the same old stuff! Honestly, I really loved your last point - why should they be afraid if they are strong in their beliefs?