Germany (catch all, incl. terrorism)

[Sarajevo071]

the US effectively killed any and all UK and French imperialism in the ME on 6 November 1956 and everyone in the ME knew that had occurred. Thus, the US became the bad guy everyone loved to hate...

So 1973 is too late; Johnson's massive aid and total support in 1967, to the extent of swallowing the attack by the Israelis on the USS Liberty merely continued and cemented the trend of the US replacing the British and French in ME eyes that began in 1956. By 1973 that process had been in effect for 17 years.

It was never clear to me why did Liberty happened and why didn't US Goverment responded and defend those sailors?! Some of them even spoke about pressure to stay silent.

Anyways, maybe US did help end of Imperialisms in ME but very fast US step up to fill vacuum and become neo-imperialistic force to this day (replaced with economic pressures, small war/interventions, regime changes and financial control and black mails). I remember reading something from Truman office (some report) about ME and Islam and it is pure bias and full of imperialistic ideas.

[Fuchs]

Serbia is difficult.
Slovenia is no problem at all, Croatia is (if known at all) rather positive.
Serbia otherwise is still stained by the reporting about the Yugoslavian civil wars.

Serbs usually get little appreciation for their political positions in Germany.
I cannot tell much about private relationships, I only knew one Serbian female 11 years ago.

Serbia is no doubt being considered as "European" (unlike Turkey or Georgia, for example).

[Sarajevo071]

Serbia is difficult.
Slovenia is no problem at all, Croatia is (if known at all) rather positive.
Serbia otherwise is still stained by the reporting about the Yugoslavian civil wars.

Serbs usually get little appreciation for their political positions in Germany.
I cannot tell much about private relationships, I only knew one Serbian female 11 years ago.

Serbia is no doubt being considered as "European" (unlike Turkey or Georgia, for example).

Yes all that is right but my point was:

Serbia was perpetrator for 5 wars (all of them they lost), for genocide and death camps, still sheltering war criminals and still they are regard better by the Germany and EU! Turkie's military elite on other hand go as far to forbid ezan from the Islambul's mosques and forcing veils from womans head, doing they worst to the Muslims and yet they are ignored and kicked on the side by the EU countries... Reason why is Serbia better then Turkey is not geographical (if Israel can be part of Eurovision, European songs competition, then Turkey can be Europe since half of them is in Europe anyways). It is xenophobia, old history and racism that looks better on white, Christian Serb then on dark skinned, Asiatic Muslims.

[Fuchs]

Trust me, it's not about skin colour.
Israel (not European imo) shares the culture with Europe, Turkey does not have an European culture.
The border to Turkey marks the frontier between "Morgenland" (orient) and "Abendland" (occident).

This cultural division is the key. They are simply not (considered as) European, although they managed to keep a tiny bit of European ground on their withdrawal from the former Ottoman Empire's size.
They're sitting between Arabs/Persians and Europeans, don't belong to either group (but much more to Arabs/Persians than to Europeans).

Steve;
Uhrlau is part of the very small scaremonger faction in Germany (which consists of federal Secretary or Interior, some state Seretaries of Interior, BND head, and some Internal Intelligence Service (Verfassungsschutz / constitution defence service) officials.

He's right, our participation has moved us into crosshairs instead of protecting us. But we're part of a huge group of countries in the crosshairs and the overall perception fo threat is very low.

The "Crusaders" affiliation should bother the Israelis the most, they're a perfect copy of crusaders imho. I expect them to collapse as well in some generations like the Crusaders did once support from overseas dwindled.

The connection between the 2nd Reich and the Ottoman Empre is 99% unknown today and can be regarded as utterly unimportant.

[Sarajevo071]

Trust me, it's not about skin colour.
Israel (not European imo) shares the culture with Europe, Turkey does not have an European culture.
The border to Turkey marks the frontier between "Morgenland" (orient) and "Abendland" (occident).

This cultural division is the key. They are simply not (considered as) European, although they managed to keep a tiny bit of European ground on their withdrawal from the former Ottoman Empire's size.
They're sitting between Arabs/Persians and Europeans, don't belong to either group (but much more to Arabs/Persians than to Europeans).

OK, I think I can agree with that. Thank you for you explanations and patience.

[rankamateur]

Interesting thread. Does anyone know anything about the proposed changes to the German intelligence community?

[Ken White]

It was never clear to me why did Liberty happened and why didn't US Goverment responded and defend those sailors?! Some of them even spoke about pressure to stay silent.

Nor is it clear to many anywhere; lot of arguments and discussions back and forth with no real resolution. It happened; it's over.

Anyways, maybe US did help end of Imperialisms in ME but very fast US step up to fill vacuum and become neo-imperialistic force to this day (replaced with economic pressures, small war/interventions, regime changes and financial control and black mails). I remember reading something from Truman office (some report) about ME and Islam and it is pure bias and full of imperialistic ideas.

I thought that's what I said? Also, you seem to forget I said this above in this thread: ""We haven't done much in the ME very well and we've been doing that for a good many years...""

There are plenty of dummies on both sides of this, the ME has some; we have some. Neither side has done well. not looking all that good for the future, either...

[Sarajevo071]

Nor is it clear to many anywhere; lot of arguments and discussions back and forth with no real resolution. It happened; it's over.I thought that's what I said? Also, you seem to forget I said this above in this thread: ""We haven't done much in the ME very well and we've been doing that for a good many years...""

There are plenty of dummies on both sides of this, the ME has some; we have some. Neither side has done well. not looking all that good for the future, either...

Sorry if I miss your point. And, I do agree with you latest statement in full.