Quote Originally Posted by sandbag View Post
I'd argue it's not TTP. Rather, it's TTP (and materiel)-driven. Complex systems (and tactics that use them) require more support.
No question; I was suggesting that the issue might better be those tactics which do indeed drive the materiel requirement. I'm pretty well convinced that war is inherently simple and that we humans have complicated it unnecessarily for a variety of reasons. Not least here in the US are an overweening love of technology for its own sake; a budget process and a Congress that promote jobs in Districts at the expense of truly good training; inherent laziness and the stultifying experience of WWI and WW II which is still very much in evidence; there's more but those will do for openers.

In my experience the most important requirement for the conduct of combat operations (and the preparation therefor...) is agility. That is followed by speed and that by effective firepower; way down the list are net power or mass. A massive force will by definition not be agile and will sacrifice speed for mass. Effective firepower is not the same thing as volume of fire or total firepower. That simple.

That's why I say the TTP factors -- which should be the drivers but are not -- are important. The TTP should drive the support process, yet because of a lack of emphasis and thought we have the support process constraining the TTP. The combat arms senior leadership over the years has failed to focus on that issue so I don't really fault the Loggies. That, BTW, is not to say that I'm living in a dream world, I'm well aware of many current constraints but am suggesting that a number of those could have been ameliorated long ago with the proper focus and resourcing. We elected not to do that for various reasons so we are where we are. Just saying we coulda and shoulda done better...
We went through a brief infatuation with "FedEx Logistics", which was mercifully killed in 2004. Corporate management principles are fine, but tend to have unforeseen consequences when applied to an army (especially one in a war).
Blame Robert Strange McNamara and his demand data mentality for much of that; he failed to realize that what worked for static Ford dealerships would not work for military forces at war. Subsequent SecDefs with Corporate experience keep looking for a way to reduce the massive inventory required for wartime readiness -- they apparently do not realize that there is little as cost-inefficient as a Rifle company in peacetime...

Problem is that Rifle Companies are like firearms; one rarely need one but when one does, one need it pretty badly.

Still, was the problem that FedEx logistics did not work -- or that the system did not want it to work? I'd suggest the latter and add the caveat that the mechanical elements to make it work did not exist. Further suggest those elements were not wanted by the Powers that be and Congress because they would have sapped funding from 'more important items.' Wonder how many fewer IED casualties there'd be had we delivery systems that were not roadbound? If we had a far lower requirement for Cl III?
Why weren't high-echelon support units afield? Talk to the planners about that one, but if I remember the traffic correctly, it was as it usually goes: planners weren't really thinking about that sort of thing.
True; no question that post attack thoughts did not intrude on many involved.
Some had drank the 4ID Kool-Aid and went in very light on the support end in the hopes that corps support units were going to magically quark in from the Twilight Zone to keep non-existent LOCs open. Bottom line is that we paid for our post-DS sins from an MTOE standpoint with horrible post Phase III readiness.
I think there was also a strong belief (on the part of many who should've known better) that it was going to be a quick in and out operation. In any event, whoever played with the TPFD erred mightily.
So yeah, I would agree that the unit designs are flawed. I don't think they "want" too much. As both a combat arms and a support weasel, I never have considered a desire by a unit for support to be a "want". However, I think complex weapon systems intrinsically require complex support solutions, unless said support solutions are designed as such that the majority of the support is done on a modular basis further back in the field. Most of our systems aren't built like that, and the Army's attempt to "replace forward, repair rear" only works when the systems themselves can support that.
Agreed -- I am merely suggesting that:

(a) They should be so designed; that we have really known that since Korea; and that we have diligently refused to do that for less than pragmatic reasons.

(b) We are fully capable of doing that but the bureaucracy would and will not be served if we do, ergo we likely will not unless placed in an existential situation.

(c) DOPMA and HRC are part of that problem...
My crack about the Imperial Army only applies to their desert mobility. I've worked with them in combat, and they do fine. They just can't support themselves or move well.
True, design factors again plus the aforementioned failure to design materiel to minimize support requirements. They can get by without an amazing amount of support if they have to and still be more than dangerous but most of the folks there are just as used to the status quo as the rest of the Army so they want their share. They can move better than most Infantry on foot but they're still on foot; the Hittites discovered that foot troops weren't ideal in the Desert over 16 centuries ago. METT-TC applies...

They are quite capable in both realms at what they were designed for (if a little over heavy on vehicles ), when METT-TC factors are ignored no unit does all that well.