French military (catch all)

[huskerguy7]

I think the phrasing in that article was done poorly.

An AQ North Africa offshoot kidnapped a French hostage. On the day before his ransom was due, the French attempted to raid, and failed. As a result, he was executed. Now, the terrorists won and the French were embarrassed.

France's special forces have accomplished several hostage rescues within the past 3 years, so I'm not surprised that they made another attempt here.(these are observations from other incidents where French hostages are taken).

France has been at war against AQ. They just haven't paid much attention to this AQ offshoot group (mainly a Western African group). This message shows that they are very upset, and will likely start "hunting."

[jmm99]

since you have experience in the African rescue business ?

Since the UN-NGO world is a small one, you may well have known the hostage. In any case, I extend my condolences and prayers.

I do have a French law of armed conflict question. That is: what are the legal requirements for France to engage in an armed conflict so as to bring the Geneva Conventions into play ?

For example here in US, a formal declaration of war is one way - not used since WWII. Another is pursuant to a UN chap 7 SC mandate (the only legal prop for the Korean War). Another (most common) is an Authorization to Use Military Force (AUMF), as in the 2001 AUMF (OEF) and 2003 AUMF (OIF). Any of those results in the Laws of War (Laws of Armed Conflict) (International Humanitarian Law) being applicable to the conflict.

And, can France legally engage a non-state actor (AQ) in a formal armed conflict ?

I ask that question because, for the most part, the EU nations seem to approach AQ as terrorists subject to law enforcement (not law of war) standards. And, GWB's GWOT and the application of the Laws of War have been strongly criticized by a number of EU jurists.

Of course, LE standards allow force to be used in hostage rescues. So, in this particular case, the two legal standards may not be that different

Thus, does "guerre contre AQ" have any legal force under French law - or is it simply rhetoric ? RSVP.

Regards

Mike

[huskerguy7]

since you have experience in the African rescue business ?

I may have come off wrong. I don't have experience with any kind of the actions mentioned. I just follow some headlines and stash some mental notes in the back of my head (last year there were at least three French hostage rescues in Africa). I would not consider myself to be an expert.

And, can France legally engage a non-state actor (AQ) in a formal armed conflict ?

Is an attack on this AQ affiliate base considered an act of war? (that's what was done). I think France just wants to justify military action, but I may be wrong. They may really want to declare war as they said.

France announced that it's going provide (military) aid to several African countries in the Sahel region. I imagine that it'll mirror the US presence in Yemen: special troops who advise and participate in HVT takedowns.

It will be interesting to see if this is just rhetoric, or if France really commits some action.

[jmm99]

my post was addressed to "Lagrange" (of Barsoom, and various environs of other planets to remain unnamed), of UN & NGO fame, ancien TdM and the subject of at least one Legion rescue (IIRC) - this guy.

Have no idea what the analysis is under French law, which is why I hailed Lagrange. France has lots of horses to do hostage rescues.

Cheers

Mike

[SWJ Blog]

Why France Will Finish Off Gaddafi

Entry Excerpt:

Let’s make something clear, the civil war in Libya will not end in a stalemate. The French will likely intervene with ground forces and topple the Gaddafi regime, and they will probably do it within a month. It is quite possible that they will do so with Italian help. President Obama has fervently wished for America to be just one of the boys; in the end, this may be a case of wishing for something so much that you get it. America has abrogated the role of global marshal that it assumed after World War II. Every posse needs a Marshal to lead it. The French will likely pick up the tin star they found lying in the street of the global village.

Click through for the rest of "Why France Will Finish Off Gaddafi".



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[SWJ Blog]

Retreat, discontent, and misunderstanding: France in Afghanistan

Entry Excerpt:

Retreat, discontent, and misunderstanding: France in Afghanistan
by Stéphane Taillat, a SWC Member
Foreign Policy

BLUF. The last two days have been murderous for the French contingent in Afghanistan; four paratroopers were killed in a suicide attack in the Surobi district, while a Special Forces soldier was killed during operations in the Alasay Valley, in the province of Kapisa.

The timing of these incidents was hardly accidental: The goal was to strike France and its army during the commemoration of the national and military holiday that is the "14 Juillet" known as Bastille Day in the Anglophone world. But these deaths also illustrate the growing engagement of French units in Afghanistan in more intense kinetic operations. The reconquest of Kapisa, a particularly sensitive region situated on a strategic axis and marked by 30 years of war, has been a particularly costly and difficult task, one that has required French forces to put into practice their tactical knowledge and understanding of "contre-insurrection" or what Americans call COIN.

Much more at Foreign Policy



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[davidbfpo]

A fascinating RAND study of France's Operation Serval in Mali and whether the US Army's expeditionary approach can learn lessons. There are some important caveats, notably reliance on French official sources as this campaign had virtually no media presence then and after:http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR770.html

The title comes from learning the French Army's boots failed in the heat amidst the rocky terrain and the one things they missed from Afghanistan. There are many other lessons, for this armchair observer the ability to move overland without major logistic problems.

There is a regional thread on Mali, a good part covers the French role:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=9254

Note the paper does not cover the "what next" question in the campaign, although it does comment on the difficulties Mali faces.

Added July 2016. There is a new commentary on the French action and the cited RAND report:http://ndupress.ndu.edu/JFQ/Joint-Fo...rmy-in-africa/

[ganulv]

Thanks for the heads-up on this one, Dave. I’ve scanned it and I’m looking forward to giving it a closer read.

The title comes from learning the French Army's boots failed in the heat amidst the rocky terrain and the one things they missed from Afghanistan.

Now you’re got me curious as to what model boots the French troops were issued. This Meindl model, maybe? Certain leather treatments can weaken the glue, but the heat alone in a place like Mali could be enough to delaminate even the highest quality of boot soles. I suppose boots with a Norwegian welt—with a liberal coating of seam sealer protecting the exposed stitching—would be one answer, albeit a pricey one. I believe the IDF issues canvas boots with glued soles using the logic that a desert environment is going to kill boots quickly regardless, so might as well go cheap. I don’t know how supportive they are, though, and the logistics of expeditionary warfare are not a concern for the IDF.

[Bob's World]

Best we remember that France's history, interests and goals in this region are completely different than those of the US, and in many ways much more practical, I suspect.

We need to be careful about getting too excited about any tactical insights when not balanced against a context of strategy. Next thing you know we'll be publishing a manual derived from the lessons learned of colonial and containment suppression operations, celebrating its tactical brilliance as somehow adding up to a strategy, and attempting to apply it as "COIN" to what we have been trying to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. Crazy.

[davidbfpo]

Best we remember that France's history, interests and goals in this region are completely different than those of the US, and in many ways much more practical, I suspect.

We need to be careful about getting too excited about any tactical insights when not balanced against a context of strategy. Next thing you know we'll be publishing a manual derived from the lessons learned of colonial and containment suppression operations, celebrating its tactical brilliance as somehow adding up to a strategy, and attempting to apply it as "COIN" to what we have been trying to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. Crazy.

Yes, hence the RAND author's numerous caveats.

What would be interesting is a comparison with the approaches used by the US military in a region familiar to them, using Bob's 'history, interests and goals'. The Phillipines comes to mind.

Being a civilian I was interested in the use of small company sized units as the basic building block and the use of troops based in West Africa and in France itself. The authors do refer to some issues over this.

[ganulv]

Being a civilian I was interested in the use of small company sized units as the basic building block and the use of troops based in West Africa and in France itself.

Is troupe de marine a career path? Or do soldiers cycle in and out of the TDM?

[B.Smitty]

davidbfpo,

Where did it mention needing more/new Chinooks?

The SGTIAs are reminiscent of Marine Enhanced Company Operations/Distributed Operations, only with armored vehicles and task organization.

[ganulv]

davidbfpo,

Where did it mention needing more/new Chinooks?

Not to put words in Dave’s mouth, but I assumed it was an indirect reference to the following on p. 38 of the report:

The surgical “antennas” and “modules” refer to field hospitals. An antenna unit is a light, air-transportable unit designed with the capacity to serve the needs of 1,000 soldiers “exposed to occasional losses.” It is designed to be able to deploy within three hours and function without resupply for 48 hours. It can handle eight wounded a day and has ten beds for recovering patients. An antenna can also become the basis of a larger, more permanent structure. In contrast, a module provides only urgent critical care, after which patients must be evacuated immediately. The equipment associated with a module weighs less than a ton and can be transported by helicopter or dropped by parachute.

The French Army subscribes to the American concept of the “golden hour,” the idea that wounded soldiers need to receive critical care within an hour of receiving their injuries. In the case of Serval, French Army sources have stated that they were operating without adequate coverage to meet the golden hour standard of care. They had to make choices about how to divide medical coverage, such that an operation in one place might have adequate coverage to meet the golden hour standard while another operation going on at the same time somewhere else did not.

[davidbfpo]

davidbfpo,

Where did it mention needing more/new Chinooks?

The SGTIAs are reminiscent of Marine Enhanced Company Operations/Distributed Operations, only with armored vehicles and task organization.

The quote is in a footnote (No.57) on pg.42 / 58 and it says:

One French officer who commanded units in Serval, when asked by the author what American resources he wished he had had in Mali, answered "CH-47's".

[B.Smitty]

The quote is in a footnote (No.57) on pg.42 / 58 and it says:

Good catch. I missed that.

[davidbfpo]

Smitty,

If you work for the Chinook makers I will claim my fee if France buys CH-47s.

[SWJ Blog]

Tactical Surprise in Small Wars: Lessons from French Wars in Afghanistan and Mali

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[davidbfpo]

I don't think this has been posted before. It is a hour long official French military video of Operation Serval:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO3iXNtLkug

Curiously a Belgian military medical contribution is referred to, but when a RAF C-17 Globemaster is shown being unloaded, not a word. Ah well.

[davidbfpo]

It has taken awhile and the report is subject to official confirmation (not that it was a story given by officials of course):

Britain will send military helicopters to join a French campaign against Islamist extremists in Africa as London and Paris move to deepen cross-Channel defence ties, the Prime Minister is expected to announce later this week. RAF Chinooks have been offered to transport French troops in discussions...

Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018...paign-against/

There was a stand alone thread New boots, Chinooks please: French lessons for the US Army, which started in 2014 after Operation Serval in Mali and it has 34k views. It has now been merged into this thread.

[davidbfpo]

Update: officially announced it will be three Chinooks.