What it means when the US goes to war

[Sarajevo071]

OK, my post is still here and you answered nicely to me so I will answer back…

I was not in Iraq, you are correct, but I was in the war for 4 years (live it, breathe it, eat it) with no bases and no safe heavens for R&R. I bleed it, I cried for my teenager brothers killed for being Muslims, my girlfriend at the time was taken on rape, I lost at least two dozen friends and brothers in arms, I lost my home, country, my whole life… So, yes, I know hate and I know war and atrocities in it.

If I mistype my apologies but I didn’t meant to say that people here denying bad things happened, what I am trying to say is that when those are happened you will not jump to denounce those and call for justice (like you denounce and accusing “other side” putting more and more people into that one group instead to look at that ONE incident and ONE person or ONE group who did it). When US soldiers kill or rape you all here say "let's wait for official statements or court proceedings", but when attack came from another side you are all full of judgments and “solutions”. Another thing is, when US soldiers kill innocent people, that’s always accidents and someone else’s fault but not when others do something and innocents get killed. Is not possible other making “mistakes” too?

Now you are to jumping on conclusions… How do you know that he did not talk with other people to? Point of his article (his book actually) is animalistic human nature and war that give us excuses and motives. Other opinions have no merit on point he is trying to show. Especially since (his another point) everyone in US (public in large and media) lying about real cost of war and lying about victims. Civilians or soldiers. And you should know this better then me. And knowing that, you should be angry on such behavior by US administration or the media. But, that’s between you and people who lied and manipulated American sons and daughters to go there and do such a things, bleed and get killed or maimed for no real reason nor American security.

You are right when you point on those numbers and other, honorable people (he did mention some of them) and my point all this time is that “other side” is similar… Some people fight because they hate but others only to defend them self and to stop injustice. If war is hell and trauma then it is hell and trauma for everyone.

You are remembering correctly about our conversations but did I mention why US (finally) decided to do something? After all that I went thru, all that I know, saw and learn, I can freely say that US did not help Bosnia due they “human nature” or “democracy” but they step up one for reason only… Failure to help us (refusal to help us for years, giving the Christian serbs and croats time to finish they job) opened doors for Mujahidden to came in, for Iran and for group that we now know like the AQ... Only reasons US “helped” was from the fear that white, European Muslims will get to hate US and fall under influence of Arab Mujahidden. C’mon, let’s be honest. You waited 3 years to put boots on the ground to help Muslims and only 3 months to go in and help Christians in East Timor?

Going back on your first comments… I don’t think I need to be there to know how is look like and what is going on. I don’t need to see every clip of attacks (either side) to know how that looks like there. And then, I can see aftermath of “justice” for killings in Iraq and Afghanistan by US soldiers. After 2 years handful with minor sentences and much, much more with slap on the wrist. On the other hand, for the same crimes (indiscriminately attacks and killings of civilians) groups and groups of people are shoot at, bombed, they homes invaded… Difference? Victims are American civilians or soldiers. If one guy get to shoot at you, you will responded with everything all around you (like so many cases in Iraq and Afghanistan proves), killing many innocent civilians in they homes or on the streets, but if one of your guy kills someone well that’s just big ops and should be understood because “war is hell”… And, not to forget, we can't just jump on the conclusions but we need to wait for (American?!) justice… Well, where is justice for others in Iraq and Afghanistan who didn’t have a thing to do with 9/11 then?!

See, it is not how I see it or someone else… It is only one way to look at things. Right or wrong way. Justice for all, remember. On the end (my apologies for ranting this long) I will ask again what I ask many times before here: After all this how do you expect for any Muslim to step up and help you when you imprisoned and killed, and still do, his innocent Muslim brothers and sisters?! Having this war, this injustice and onslaught already turn half Muslims away. What will happen if others follow that first group?


PS.
About my “abrasiveness” and not being fair… Like I always said: my words and my attitudes are reflection of what I see and get from others. I am honest and open, and I am not afraid of voicing my opinions or feelings. Especially when I feel I am right.

Thank you for your honest and open talks and responses. Sometimes when I talk to you (or to someone else) I also talk to other people here and responding on they words and opinions. That's when I can sound that bad. Please do not take my words to much personally.

You do have my respect and my thanks for your open mind and honest talk. Many more here too.