Israel & intelligence (merged thread)

[Rex Brynen]

I disagree with the notion that it sows fear and confusion.

The fear and confusion stems from the possibility that the presumably highly compartmentalized information on al-Mabhouh's mission might have been leaked from within Hamas, or through compromised means of communication. Certainly Hamas as an organization won't be intimidated.

What will be interesting--and in this regard, the operation could have negative consequences for Israel--is whether Hamas lifts its self-prohibition on external operations (ie, those outside Palestine) to retaliate against an Israeli target in a third country.

My only gripe is that nobody seems to see an issue with some supposed man of the people living the high life in Dubai.

He appears to have been in Dubai for operational reasons, Schmedlap--he didn't live there

[tequila]

The U.S. Congress will.

Amen to that.

Omar, the Israelis have been caught red-handed spying on the U.S. several times. A U.S. Congressperson was caught on tape agreeing to try to interfere with an investigation of said spying with a suspected Israeli intelligence asset, signing off by saying "this conversation doesn't exist." There really isn't much that Israel can't do that Congress won't sign off on.

[TheLapsedPacifist]

It's all a bit of a soap-opera...the BBC's reaction that the UK passports was a bit melodramatic...the photos were obviously fake - big grins, large glasses, wigs, I expected some dodgy porn-facial hair, but was disappointed!

So who dunnit? Well, from one perspective, who cares...a very bad man is not with us anymore.

And I don't see this as bad for the Israelis...the rest of the nations have deployed hundreds of thousands of soldiers in prolonged campaigns, spent billions, suffered hundreds of casualties, and thousands of civilians have died and we don't have our man...the Israelis quietly located this guy and dealt with him...that Gentlemen is deterrence that an insurgent can understand. More of the same, I hope.

Whilst I'm on my soapbox, I find the fact that Dubai is preparing to ask InterPol to issue arrest warrants laughable...I don't presume that Dubai was very busy trying to arrest this guy living under their noses in the lap of luxury?

[Rex Brynen]

that Gentlemen is deterrence that an insurgent can understand.

Oh, it's certainly not deterrence in any form. It might damage operational effectiveness somewhat, but it won't have any effect on the willingness of Palestinians to join, or support, Hamas.

[omarali50]

It's all a bit of a soap-opera...the BBC's reaction that the UK passports was a bit melodramatic...the photos were obviously fake - big grins, large glasses, wigs, I expected some dodgy porn-facial hair, but was disappointed!

So who dunnit? Well, from one perspective, who cares...a very bad man is not with us anymore.

And I don't see this as bad for the Israelis...the rest of the nations have deployed hundreds of thousands of soldiers in prolonged campaigns, spent billions, suffered hundreds of casualties, and thousands of civilians have died and we don't have our man...the Israelis quietly located this guy and dealt with him...that Gentlemen is deterrence that an insurgent can understand. More of the same, I hope.

Whilst I'm on my soapbox, I find the fact that Dubai is preparing to ask InterPol to issue arrest warrants laughable...I don't presume that Dubai was very busy trying to arrest this guy living under their noses in the lap of luxury?

pacifist, I find nothing surprising in your letter, but I do have a prediction: In a few years, the media equation will start to change AND the costs of blindly supporting Israel will accelerate until even the rich and powerful US will have to think twice before spending billions carrying water for Israel all over the world...then, these apparently "normal" views will change.
Dont take my word for it, just be willing to rethink assumptions and look around...you will see that this situation is not tenable forever. It is in the interest of the Israeli people to make a reasonable peace with the Palestinians. Trying to beat and bludgeon their way out of this will not work.

[TheLapsedPacifist]

pacifist, I find nothing surprising in your letter, but I do have a prediction: In a few years, the media equation will start to change AND the costs of blindly supporting Israel will accelerate until even the rich and powerful US will have to think twice before spending billions carrying water for Israel all over the world...then, these apparently "normal" views will change.
Dont take my word for it, just be willing to rethink assumptions and look around...you will see that this situation is not tenable forever. It is in the interest of the Israeli people to make a reasonable peace with the Palestinians. Trying to beat and bludgeon their way out of this will not work.

@omarali50: My issue doesn't concern the rights or wrongs of the Israeli occupation - just their ways and means of dealing with this particular adversary in contrast to ours. Generally, Israel's actions don't get my vote.

[Entropy]

Brits don't seem too happy their passports were used:

Ministers are understood to be furious that an alleged hit squad which murdered a Hamas leader in Dubai last month cloned the passports of six unsuspecting Britons, who are now living in fear of reprisals.

Israel, which has not denied involvement in the murder, had previously promised that Mossad, its secret intelligence service, would never use British passports to help its agents carry out covert operations.

[Kevin23]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...021901511.html

Apparently Israel isn't the only suspect as we already know.

[Firn]

The fear and confusion stems from the possibility that the presumably highly compartmentalized information on al-Mabhouh's mission might have been leaked from within Hamas, or through compromised means of communication. Certainly Hamas as an organization won't be intimidated.

What will be interesting--and in this regard, the operation could have negative consequences for Israel--is whether Hamas lifts its self-prohibition on external operations (ie, those outside Palestine) to retaliate against an Israeli target in a third country.

I agree mostly. As I wrote before it is hard to say which positive and negative impacts this possibly Mossad coup will have. We should not just look at the "bright" side.


Firn