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Thread: Ousted Air Force chief cites dissension in Pentagon

  1. #41
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    Fuchs,

    Again, I think I've lost the point of your argument on UAV's. Yes, our enemies are sure to have them and will use them to the best of their ability, but it seems as if you're arguing that the US has no capability to counter the threat they pose. If that's the case, then I heartily disagree.

  2. #42
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default Disagree. Having participated in the shoot down

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuchs View Post
    "Engage" is not enough.
    A small UAV at 500 m altitude moves at the speed of a car and most of it can be penetrated by a bullet without achieving a kill.
    Furthermore, it won't be heard even at night, and even at daylight it would be extremely difficult to spot without dedicated anti-air sensors.
    Manually controlled machine guns are no solution.
    If you disagree; simply double the altitude. That's little challenge for UAV design, but disqualifies machine guns without doubt.
    of two aircraft with only .30 caliber weapons and having seen what one of these

    will do at 1,000m, I think you're way wrong. However, I'm easy; you don't like that, there's this: with it's slewing and tracking system for the .50.

  3. #43
    Council Member Cavguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    of two aircraft with only .30 caliber weapons and having seen what one of these

    will do at 1,000m, I think you're way wrong. However, I'm easy; you don't like that, there's this: with it's slewing and tracking system for the .50.
    Without operational details, most UAV's above 3000'. UAV's at 3000' are audible but not visible to the naked eye, making manual AA hard.

    I don't know enough about whether it produces enough heat for a MANPADs to shoot down.

    Obviously, a radar gun system or laser/radar SAM could shoot one down, although they are quite small (<2-3m)

    Agree with Entropy, countermeasures from enemy UAV are readily available.
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
    Who is Cavguy?

  4. #44
    Council Member Fuchs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entropy View Post
    Fuchs,

    Again, I think I've lost the point of your argument on UAV's. Yes, our enemies are sure to have them and will use them to the best of their ability, but it seems as if you're arguing that the US has no capability to counter the threat they pose. If that's the case, then I heartily disagree.
    It's important to keep in mind their low price. A competent administration could oder quantity produced tactical UAVs at prices of below 1,000 USD.
    Hundreds could be launched to prepare for a specific fight and even if only half a dozen came back, it could still provide excellent recon results on a brigade area.
    The cost would be comparable to a single monkey model MBT.

  5. #45
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default True -- but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavguy View Post
    Without operational details, most UAV's above 3000'. UAV's at 3000' are audible but not visible to the naked eye, making manual AA hard.
    True but most .50s have optics nowadays. A sheet of fire directed aloft in the general direction has brought down many an aircraft and I know of one small UAV downed with 5.56 fire 'accidentally.' (Jill's recurring Ca/REMF battle, in this case between an MI UAV and the parent Brigades LRS Company ). I'll also reveal my age by saying that I along with many others was trained to produce (and practiced) Anti-Aircraft fire by a rifle company just firing every weapon rapidly in the general direction and have seen target sleeves with a lot of punctures. We quit that due to the air superiority we have enjoyed since 1951.
    I don't know enough about whether it produces enough heat for a MANPADs to shoot down.
    It doesn't but that doesn't affect the M3M .50 cal on every Avenger, a system with great optics and an excellent tracker.

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